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Author Topic: Vivian's and Desmond's Articles  (Read 1605 times)
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Cheryl
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« on: September 14, 2004, 01:52:26 PM »

I just checked the "stats" for readers of your two articles from yesterday.  528 people read Vivian's review of the Richmond race and 317 read Desmond's article.  Wow!  Those are some darn good numbers!  Congratulations to you both and thanks again for your hard work!

Maybe I'll get back "on" the Couch soon and put together my feelings about the farce of the Chase and all the changes that I think are ruining the sport.  Problem is, I've got so much to say, it would probably be as long as War and Peace and everyone would fall asleep reading it.   :wink:   Also I feel like everyone else in the print media and on the Net have already said about everything there is to say already.  I'm becoming so lethargic about NASCAR that it just doesn't seem like it worth the effort required anymore.  

But I'm glad the rest of you are continuing to express your opinions in articles to help keep the site going.  Thanks again!

Cheryl
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marrtinigirl
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 02:18:15 PM »

Hang in there Cheryl.... :wink:
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John
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2004, 09:40:40 PM »

It's only fair to give credit where credit is due.  I noticed yesterday on Jayski's site, he had links to both articles there.  He certainly has an influence in the NASCAR community.  That is probably why Mike Joy e-mailed Desmond.  Could you imagine opening up your e-mail account and see an e-mail from Mike Joy! Shocked

Hey Cheryl, I know it's tough when you see things going they way you would prefer them not to go.  I was thinking the other day about some of your comments lately.  Don't lose sight of the purpose of this site, to provide feedback to the networks about their broadcasts.  If you focus on the changes that NASCAR is making (ie: Not watching the California race; Chase for The Championship), it is taking you away from that original purpose.  It becomes less effective if you try to lump both TV and NASCAR criticisms into one article because the line between both gets blurred and it becomes difficult to know what the effective purpose of the article is.

I only express this as a point of interest, not as criticism.  You do a hell of a job here that most people would not even bother with.  If you still have it in your heart, then continue by all means.  But it has to be in your heart.
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Cheryl
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2004, 11:14:47 PM »

Quote from: "John"
It's only fair to give credit where credit is due.  I noticed yesterday on Jayski's site, he had links to both articles there.  He certainly has an influence in the NASCAR community.  That is probably why Mike Joy e-mailed Desmond.  


As I've stressed to everyone here before, the TV people DO read this site every week (with or without Jayski's links).  That's why it's important to actually RATE the TV broadcast in that thread each week.  That's something I don't see very many people doing anymore.  I really want to  encourage those who aren't partiicipating in those threads to please do so.   Let your voices be heard!  


Quote from: "John"
Hey Cheryl, I know it's tough when you see things going they way you would prefer them not to go.  I was thinking the other day about some of your comments lately.  Don't lose sight of the purpose of this site, to provide feedback to the networks about their broadcasts.  If you focus on the changes that NASCAR is making (ie: Not watching the California race; Chase for The Championship), it is taking you away from that original purpose.


I think I know the purpose of this site very well, John.  Please re-read the statement at the top of the main Speedcouch page.  It says "Occasionally, we may also offer up opinions on some aspect of racing itself under the "Just My Opinion" section."

Also, please remember I never suggested anyone on the forum boycott the CA broadcast, just mentioned that is what Lou and I meant to do.  

If I ever get around to writing an article about the current state of NASCAR, it will include both the things the sactioning body is doing as well as TV (both positive and negative).  In the case of the Labor Day race being moved from Darlington to CA, it has been well-documented that TV had a role in that, so they are interrelated.  

Quote from: "John"
I only express this as a point of interest, not as criticism.  You do a hell of a job here that most people would not even bother with.  If you still have it in your heart, then continue by all means.  But it has to be in your heart.


I understand and just wanted to clarify a few issues.  And, trust me, when I write an opinion piece, it's always from the heart.    That's part of the reason why it takes so long to put it together, and Lou so long to proofread it.   :lol:

Cheryl
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John
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 11:59:09 PM »

What I meant by Jayski is that it proably didn't hurt the numbers by having the articles linked on Jayski.

I didn't suggest that you encouraged anyone not to watch the California race.  What I meant was that by not watching the race, you couldn't do a review of the broadcast in order to give feedback to the network.  It didn't have to be that race, any race you don't watch, you can't do a review.  I'm not saying you may have taped the race and watch it later, just if you don't watch it at all.  Say for example, because of your possible personal opinons the Chase, you choose not to watch the next 5 races, then you can't do the reviews for those races.  I guess what I'm getting at, if what NASCAR does allows you to loose interest in watching the races, you will probably feel like you don't want to do the reviews anymore or less of them.  That's why I say to keep doing it if your heart is in it.

To think that I wouldn't know that YOU wouldn't know what the purpose of your own website would be, well, stupid on my part.  I just noticed that, "Just My Opinion" and the race reviews were being lumped into the race review.  Sometimes we get turned off or let down by the things going on around us and we may forget the things that were once most evident.  I got that sense from you lately and I thought that sometimes a little objective input may help regarding keeping the two areas separate.  I guess I was wrong and if I offended you by saying so, I'm sorry.
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Vivian
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2004, 01:20:41 AM »

Hey, you two.  Cheer up some, please.  We have a long difficult road ahead of us and we need to keep trying to satisfy our objectives in all areas.  The poll I did recently was so I could do a post (will be a new thread) in reference to it soon and I hope it is a positive one.  I need to word everything just right and it is harder to put together than I thought it would be.

Now, what's for dinner?   Cheesy
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Vivian
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2004, 01:21:50 AM »

Uh oh, just realized dinner is over back east probably.  So, what's for breakfast?   :lol:
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sally
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2004, 02:41:41 AM »

I understand what John is saying about the value of the reviews that Cheryl does...whether they have any influence or not.  But I also understand how Cheryl feels.  She reviews the races because it's something she cares about.  When that enthusiasm is lost, for whatever reason, the purpose in doing the reviews is lost.  I find that I don't care much how the networks cover racing...because it isn't about racing anymore.  It's about markets, money, and entertainment.  I don't think she began this as a way to critique entertainment.  I'ts more about how Nascar has become something else.  The perfect example of that to me was Bill Weber on WT last night.  When DW pointed out that they gave no coverage to 3 of the top 10 finishers (Bliss, Edwards, and Mike Wallace), his response was that he knew he mentioned them in his "through the field" segment.  That's what he now considers coverage.  Aside from that, the fact that Nascar and TV obviously don't care what fans think, as long as they get their market locations, there seems little purpose.  This USED to be a fan based sport. Sad

Don't mean to be argumentative, but I understand how Cheryl feels about this, I think.

Sally
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Cheryl
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2004, 01:54:00 PM »

Quote from: "John"
What I meant by Jayski is that it proably didn't hurt the numbers by having the articles linked on Jayski.
I didn't suggest that you encouraged anyone not to watch the California race.  What I meant was that by not watching the race, you couldn't do a review of the broadcast in order to give feedback to the network.  It didn't have to be that race, any race you don't watch, you can't do a review.  I'm not saying you may have taped the race and watch it later, just if you don't watch it at all.  Say for example, because of your possible personal opinons the Chase, you choose not to watch the next 5 races, then you can't do the reviews for those races.  I guess what I'm getting at, if what NASCAR does allows you to loose interest in watching the races, you will probably feel like you don't want to do the reviews anymore or less of them.  That's why I say to keep doing it if your heart is in it.

To think that I wouldn't know that YOU wouldn't know what the purpose of your own website would be, well, stupid on my part.  I just noticed that, "Just My Opinion" and the race reviews were being lumped into the race review.  Sometimes we get turned off or let down by the things going on around us and we may forget the things that were once most evident.  I got that sense from you lately and I thought that sometimes a little objective input may help regarding keeping the two areas separate.  I guess I was wrong and if I offended you by saying so, I'm sorry.


No I wasn't offended at all.  Just wanted to clarify things as I see them (in my own twisted way).   :?   As to Jayski, he usually checks Speedcouch and picks up the reviews/articles every week (if I get them posted in a timely manner).  If not, I write him and ask him to post the links.  So they are always on Jayski at some point in the week.  Granted if they are posted later in the week, less people read them.

Your point about me not doing reviews some weeks is valid.  We've travelled so much this summer attending USAR races, I haven't actually watched several races on TV, but listened to them on XM driving home on Sundays.  That's why I can't stress enough that everyone here posting their thoughts on the race (positive and negative) are even more important on those weeks (as they are every week).  Even when I watch the race, I don't always have time to do a review right away.  Believe it or not, only a small part of my reasons for late reviews or no reviews has to do with my current feelings about NASCAR.  My regular job involves a great deal of writing, so some weeks, even though I have pages and pages of notes from the broadcast, I'm just not up to doing more writing at home after doing so much at work.

I guess I'm confused as to what you mean about "Just My Opinion" being "lumped" into the race reviews.  I make a concerted effort to make sure and separate what the TV networks do from the sactioning body in my actual reviews.  If you are talking about the discussion threads on the forum, yes, we all seem to cross-post under the topics.  

I'm not trying to be argumentative here either, just trying to clarify things.  I really go out of my way to keep my feelings about the race results or NASCAR actions out of my actual race reviews.  During the edit process, I try to make sure that Vivian, Sally, or Desmond do the same when they write reviews as well.

On the drive to work this morning (before I even read your last post), I was wondering if you would be interested in writing the race review on the Martinsville race next month?  Lou and I will be attending that race, so I need someone to cover the broadcast.  You always make interesting points in your posts about TV, so I thought you might provide a different perspective in a review than the rest of us do.  Are you interested at all?  

Cheryl
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John
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2004, 09:37:44 PM »

Quote from: "Cheryl"
On the drive to work this morning (before I even read your last post), I was wondering if you would be interested in writing the race review on the Martinsville race next month?  Lou and I will be attending that race, so I need someone to cover the broadcast.  You always make interesting points in your posts about TV, so I thought you might provide a different perspective in a review than the rest of us do.  Are you interested at all?  
Cheryl


WOW!  Really!  That's a lot of pressure, but it's an honor to be thought of.  Let me think about it over the weekend.  I see that the race is on NBC, so I'll have no trouble seeing all of the race.  So let me think about it.  This weekend's race here in Canada is tape delayed until 7 PM AST and they are going to cram everything into 2.5 hours.  So much for seeing all of the race when we get home from NH.  

I wasn't trying to be argumentitive either.  I guess I had mistaken your busy schedule for not being interested (for lack of better words) or being frustrated with NASCAR that maybe you felt like, "I really don't want to do this anymore."

Quote
I guess I'm confused as to what you mean about "Just My Opinion" being "lumped" into the race reviews. I make a concerted effort to make sure and separate what the TV networks do from the sactioning body in my actual reviews. If you are talking about the discussion threads on the forum, yes, we all seem to cross-post under the topics.


I wasn't refering to the message board.  I was refering to the race reviews.  Say for example that I did the review for Saturday night's race; when Mayfield and M.Wallace had the battle for the lead for so many laps and neither of them had earned the top spot yet, TNT went for a Through The Field.  I almost jumped out of my seat, I couldn't believe they would actually leave this great battle to do that.  So if I was writing the review, there could be two different ways do it; what I was thinking and what would be more effective in a report:


"At Lap ###, Both Mayfield and M.Wallace did not pit under the caution and had a great battle for the lead, then someone at TNT had a brainstorm that this would be a good time for a Through The Field.  What were they thinking!"

or the other:

"At Lap ###, Both Mayfield and M.Wallace did not pit under the caution and had a great battle for the lead when TNT started Through The Field.  If it were me, I would have waited until one of the drivers had claimed the top spot before going ahead with the TTF."

I was just concerned one time you said about the Chase in your review, maybe at Bristol, that you and most of the people you talk to, do not like the Chase.  That's fine, but I think that probably belongs in "Just My Opinion" rather than the race review.  I agree that they focus on it quite a bit, but maybe a more effective and perhaps appropriate way would be for example:

"At Lap 20, TNT showed the standings as of now for the Chase and then at Lap 30 they showed it again.  If it were me and they wanted to show these standings, it would be better to do after 100, 200, 300, 400 and maybe 450 lap for two reasons:  we are not bombarded with them for those who do not like it and they are shown at regular intervals for those that do."

I don't know if all this makes any sense, but this was my attempt to clarify things.  I'm glad you mentioned about your busy schedule, that explains a lot to me.  

So now that everyone is confused, Tammy wants me to go make supper so we can clean the car out to get ready for the trip to NH.  Some people have already left from here to go camp there, but we are staying in a hotel about an hour from the track, so we do not have to leave so early.
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Vivian
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2004, 09:47:12 PM »

John, I understood well what you meant.  Sounds like you would do a great job on a review.  Think hard about it.  Cool
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marrtinigirl
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2004, 03:12:16 PM »

John,

You are correct, and you are wrong all at the same time.

Yes, Cheryl did mention the Chase in her review of Bristol, and she DID say that people were getting tired of it....However, the mention, and the follow up were about how much coverage the NETWORKS were giving to the chase.
 [/quote]I do feel that TNT spends an increasing amount of time each week talking about the candidates for the Chase for the Championship and that is starting to get tiring to myself and many veteran fans.


Therefore, it fits perfectly into a race review of how the networks are broadcasting the race.  Certainly we all know that the chase is there, we can't ignore it.  But we don't need it rubbed in our faces constantly.  And if THAT is the reason that a lot of us are losing interest in the races, mostly because the networks are too busy crunching numbers than reporting the actual race, then it DOES belong in the race broadcast.  The purpose of the reviews, I think, is to let the networks know how the fans liked the boradcast.  If we hated it for the same reason, that should be known.

And, not to be the trouble maker here, but why stop now....

The examples that you gave as to how you would write

[/quote]At Lap ###, Both Mayfield and M.Wallace did not pit under the caution and had a great battle for the lead when TNT started Through The Field. If it were me, I would have waited until one of the drivers had claimed the top spot before going ahead with the TTF."

is really no different.  You still wrote in there what you would do, so you, too, are expressing your opinion.  You can't criticize what someone else did, then do the same thing and just reword it, and fool us into thinking you didn't put an opinion just because you didn't come right out and say "I don't like it."  Your opinion is still there, it is just masked by word-play.  But it is all the same.

Staci
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marrtinigirl
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2004, 03:13:23 PM »

Yes, before anyone else points it out, I see that I totally messed up the quote thingy.  I hope you still follow.
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sally
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2004, 08:58:27 PM »

The other thing to remember is that, whether it's a movie, play, or race coverage, a review is, inevitably, one person's opinion of what is being presented.  I'm sure we've all seen a movie that many critics panned, but loved it ourselves.  No matter what, you give your own opinion of what you saw.  As objective as we might try to be, we can't help but have it colored by our own opinions.  I'm sure there are lots of people out there that don't agree with Cheryl's assessment of the race coverage.  Many of us do.  I think she does a fine job of staying as objective as she possibly can, given the circumstances.  And, as far as I'm concerned, anything that comes out of my TV set during the broadcast is fair game for review.

I've never been able to understand how she keeps track of so many things, myself.  I tend to be left with more of an overall impression of what I watched, not as many details as Cheryl catches.  I've tried it, and it ain't easy!
Sally
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John
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2004, 02:17:18 AM »

The actual quote from the Bristol review was:

Around this time is when I really noticed TNT dwelling too much on the "fight" for 10th place in the points and the Chase for the Championship. I understand that NBC and TNT wanted this silly system to keep fans interested. All I know is that most of the fans to which I talk tell me that they're getting sick of hearing about this stuff all the time.

The underlined was my point.  The silly system is the Chase (Just My Opinion) which is controlled by NASCAR.  My example was the Through The Field (Race Review) which is controlled by NBC/TNT.  Again, not to argue, just to clarify my thought.

I have been long winded about this before and I really don't care to go on about it because I'm sure I have caused enough greef to Cheryl about this when probably I should have kept shut about it.  And really, if she  has nothing further to say on it, then it is not fair for me to continue.  Staci, feel free to reply, but I will not be commenting further for that reason.

Cheryl, I have decided not to do the review for Martinsville.  But I appreciate the thought.  Hunting season is approaching. :roll:
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