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Author Topic: Why not ask the real question???  (Read 902 times)
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old hot rodder
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« on: June 28, 2007, 02:52:22 PM »

With all this talk about penalties and cheating, shouldn't the real question be:
   Is or is not what the Hendrick guys did really "cheating"??
To me, cheating involves dishonesty and an actual intent to violate a known rule, law, statue, etc. MENS REA in my world, which, I think is some Latin phrase.
  I was listening to former crew chief Tim Brewer on the radio this morning. He says it is all black or white these days. No gray.
  Sure it is. Right. Wink
 So why are all the teams spending millions of $ just to hope to build a car which is exactly equal to everyone elses??  Oh, you say, to malke it just a bit better? Then I almost guarantee you that there are shades of gray some where in that rule book. It is almost impossible to set forth written "rules" of any kind w/out there being some room for interpretation. That is why we have Courts and, those dreaded lawyers. (that horrible "L" word Grin Grin)
  I truly believe that the purpose behind all this is to simply maintain the authority of the Nascar dictatorship, let 'em know who is BOSS!
  The France family MAY be in danger of losing the absolute authority for the ist time since 1948, and they won't give it up w/out a fight.
  Time will tell.
Dick
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Cheryl
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2007, 02:57:36 PM »

Excellent points, Dick!  I think from an article I read by DW (oh the horror) that the template DID fit their cars, but that the area of the fenders was outside the template.  From his description, it sounds like it was an area NA$CAR slipped up on and that the teams were trying to take advantage of that.  Also,  heard some of the same from Robin Pemberton on XM last night.  So now, the Hendrick teams (and all the others) know they can't mess with this area either.  Heard Greg Biffle, Ryan Newman and crew chiefs from the 29 and others on XM say that there would be a lot of teams working this week to make sure their fenders were in compliance.

Cheryl
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sally
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 03:42:40 PM »

I also heard that the rule book says that the inly thing that can be altered on the fenders is the tire clearance...with Nascar approval.  Also that members of the 5 & 25 said Nascar wuoldn't let it slide...so they knew what was going on and anticipated failure.  Since it really didn't cost either team anything (points don't alter top 12, 100K is chump changr, and crew chiefs will still be in constant contact, as well as be able to get new cars ready), why not try pushing the limits?  Nascar wants the new car to be IROC, and they will make it happen.

Sally
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old hot rodder
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 03:57:14 PM »

I think they will make it happen too, Sally, which, it seems to me, will make it about as exciting as watching parking meters. Sad
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William James
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2007, 04:48:19 PM »

You are absolutely right, Dick.  In the final analysis, it is all about power, no matter how little the effect actually is.  Also bear in mind that NASCAR is trying to be as strict to "cheaters" as football, basketball, and baseball are.  Part of its appeal, at least to me, is that NASCAR was not like the other sports.  Unfortunately, in many ways, now it is. Angry
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cowboy271
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2007, 03:54:19 AM »

Great post and points Dick!

It appears NASCAR is trying so hard to reinvent the IROC  series for the Cup series (and Busch won't be far behind), but it seems they don't seem to realize where the IROC series is....gone.  IMHO, the IROC series was interesting, but the results were 50% driver skill and 50% luck.

The attraction of NASCAR was the team competition.  Certain teams seemed to dominate at certain tracks.  I know DEI ruled the plate tracks until Hendrick figured out/improved the tricks they used.  Bobby Labonte used to own Rockingham.  There were countless other dominate teams/drivers at certain tracks.  I don't know if cheating was involved but never thought it was just due to a "superior" driver.

I'm sure Smokey Yunick, Jake Elder, Holman and Moody and others are rolling in their graves (and Junior Johnson probably keeps hearing "Thank God and Greyhound, I'm Gone" in his head) given NASCAR's current state.

My romanticism (sorry, that's probably not the word I need, but I'm Southern bred and raised and don't know no better) with NASCAR has been with the teamwork and the teams contribution to the results.  I know it's not cheating if you don't get caught, but I really hate to see the team creativity taken away.
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super61
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2007, 12:32:51 PM »

I think they will make it happen too, Sally, which, it seems to me, will make it about as exciting as watching parking meters. Sad

hey the parking meters by the college are the best to watch, you can watch all the parking tickets blow across the courtyard all day long

ken
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Cheryl
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2007, 12:54:01 PM »

Here's Monte Dutton's thoughts on cheating in NASCAR and other sports.  Kind of interesting, especially the part about "sending a message" to the Hendrick teams:

http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/nascar_6338___article.html/think_cheating.html

Here's some good points from David Poole as well:

http://www.thatsracin.com/242/story/5144.html

At the bottom, he pretty much says the same thing I did about how any points deductions mean nothing to teams who have each won 4 races.  Also some good points early about TNT and Danica-mania.

Cheryl
« Last Edit: June 29, 2007, 01:05:08 PM by Cheryl » Logged
old hot rodder
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2007, 02:52:11 PM »

I think they will make it happen too, Sally, which, it seems to me, will make it about as exciting as watching parking meters. Sad

hey the parking meters by the college are the best to watch, you can watch all the parking tickets blow across the courtyard all day long

ken



Ken, I meant the meters, not the "meter maids", nor the co eds!! Grin Grin
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William James
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2007, 04:22:40 PM »

Thanks, Monte, for saying what I have always wanted to say but was afraid to say. Smiley
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old hot rodder
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2007, 07:22:57 PM »

I just read Monte Dutton's article. I could not have said it much better!
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