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Question: Like the new green/white/checkers proposal?  (Voting closed: July 16, 2004, 01:11:03 AM)
Yes, the fans deserve to get their money's worth - 0 (0%)
No, a 2-lap sprint is too risky - 3 (50%)
No, the 2-lap sprint must be completed under green no matter what - 3 (50%)
Total Voters: 6

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Author Topic: Green/White/Checkers  (Read 2957 times)
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17RoushFan
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« on: July 16, 2004, 01:11:03 AM »

It was announced today that NASCAR will enforce the green/white/checker rule to the Nextel Cup and Busch Series, with two laps of green flag racing, but if a caution comes out anytime during those two laps, the race is over and the field is frozen. This rule will come in effect starting next weekend, and the August 25th truck race.
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 tuned in to watch some commercials, but when they went to break, i saw a nascar race!
ronbarnes77
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2004, 03:39:11 PM »

will i thought about this for weeks.at first i supported the move but now i don't for two reasons.1 driver safety and 2 it's a gimmick.driver safety especially because even above the paying fans i don't any drivers getting hurt.
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Desmond
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2004, 05:10:21 PM »

Don't like the rule as written.

NASCAR wants to ensure a green flag finish, yet allows only one attempt at such a finish?  And, as I understand it, truck series races can now end under caution.  Imagine how angry fans will be the first time that happens.

As for safety concerns, there have been 48 truck series GWC finishes, and, as far as I know, no serious injuries have resulted from them.

Also, at Daytona and Talladega, this rule should be modified to "green-green-white-checkered" because it takes the restrictor-plate engines an additional lap to gain full speed.  Remember that, at qualifying, the second lap is almost always quicker than the first.

Finally, to correct 17RoushFan, truck races can end under yellow as soon as this Saturday at Gateway near St. Louis.
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ronbarnes77
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2004, 10:19:17 PM »

good point des about the plate tracks.also i agree that with you about the truck series.why change their rules right in the middle of the season.
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sally
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2004, 12:37:52 AM »

I thin Nascar solved the wrong problem.  I don't know about you, but I want to SEE whatever line/scoring loop they use as a finish line.  For some strange reason, I don't trust Nascar to tell me who won unless I can see them cross a line on the track, wherever it is.  These are the same guys who told Carl Edwards the caution light never came on, remember?  I don't think they've "solved" the problem of trashing the track until the fans can see whatever line needs to be crossed to win.  And the first time there is a big crash, they will blame "the fans" .
Sally
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17RoushFan
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2004, 11:09:14 AM »

Unfortunately, I don't have the Speed channel, but according to nascar.com, the truck race went a total of 174(160+14) laps. Is it because they had to restart the g/w/c format 5 times, since the caution came out each time they tried to finish under green?

This new rule is like having a 5-minute overtime in basketball, but if the game is still tied, the game ends in a draw. Having a caution in the g/w/c is like a tie. Talk about leaving the fans hanging!
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 tuned in to watch some commercials, but when they went to break, i saw a nascar race!
sally
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2004, 12:05:57 PM »

They had 3 g/w/c/ restarts because they kept wrecking.  Kenny Wallace pointed out -several times- that "This is what the fans wanted."

Almost makes you wonder if this was a set up to show what a bad idea it was to have the new rule.  I still say the only reason the g/w/c is "better" is because it gives everyone a definite line to determine the winner.  Quite a coincidence to have such a melee on restarts, isn't it?
Sally
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marrtinigirl
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2004, 12:48:02 AM »

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I am getting a little irritated with these rules instituted to please the "New" fans, and yet we all get lumped into a big pile when these things go wrong.  "This is what the fans wanted."

Seems interesting to me that none of this trash throwing happened before this year, and this also happens to be the year that the whole system changed to gain a new fan base.  Well NASCAR, you got your new fan base, and still they aren't happy.  And as soon as we use this g/w/c mess and someone gets hurt, you can blame the new fans, because they seem to be the only ones you are listening to.  It is irritating to me that we have to watch the whole sport change just to please fans that didn't even exist yet.  

And before anyone takes offense, by new fans, I mean the people with the short attention spans who didn't start watching until the changes were made.  I am talking about the people who are only impressed with the fancy graphics and "entertainment" aspect of racing.  I am talking about the ones who throw trash when they don't get what they want.  If this isn't you, then I am not talking about you.

I remember, not too many years ago, Dale Jarrett won the Daytona 500 under caution.  "The Super Bowl" of racing, and no one threw trash.  You take that risk when you buy a ticket, you are not owed a green flag finish.

I agree with Sally (big shock) that I would feel better about races ending under caution if they would explain to me how they determined who was in front.  Because at this point, it looks like they just close their eyes and point.

Hey look, Lou, I actually had something to say on this topic!! LOL

Staci
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17RoushFan
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2004, 08:34:32 AM »

Not only the 2000 edition did Dale Jarrett win under caution at Daytona, but Dale Earnhardt did in 1998 as did Michael Waltrip in 2003 (really under red).
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ronbarnes77
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2004, 02:24:08 PM »

you know guys i kind of don't the fact that everybody says that this is what the fans want.that's simply not true plentry of fans do not want g/w/c  i told jeff hammond of fox and was told that at least 10 other fans had e-mail him to say get rid of g/w/c.
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Cheryl
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2004, 02:38:47 PM »

How come no one is voting in Mike's poll?  Looks like I'm the only one who voted when he put it up Thursday night.  We want to hear your thoughts, but vote as well, please!

Personally, I'm disappointed in NASCAR's twist to the rule.  They can't just do what every other stock car series in the country does and do green/white/checkers until they get a green flag finish?   Nooooo, they have to only make one attempt and then that's it.  Probably because they couldn't possibly let the race run too long or their TV partners would be upset.  And after this weekend, they'll be imposing this twist on the truck series as well.  As they mentioned on Saturday's truck broadcast, only 4 times (before Saturday) has the truck series ever required multiple G/W/C to get an event concluded.  That's ONLY 4 times in 8 years!    Maybe I'm just weird, but I think if you're going to give the fans a green flag finish, guarantee them one.  Don't just make a token effort at one and then give up.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy the fans will at least get "an attempt" to see a green finish to races in it's premiere series, but I feel this is just typical of Brian France though; he has to make everything "his own" interpretation.  

I was talking to some crew members on USAR teams on Saturday night and most of them don't agree with what NASCAR's doing either.  Same with their silly free pass.  If returning to the last green flag lap and G/W/C finishes has been fine for grassroots racers for 50+ years, how come it's not good enough for the supposed best racers in the world?  Why doesn't NASCAR have faith in their drivers to not turn the track into a junkyard?

Sorry for the rant, but when I am away from NASCAR for a few days and reminded of how well other sanctioning bodies can do with their officiating, it just makes me more disgusted with the mess Brian France is making out of NASCAR these days.  And all for the sake of  "entertainment."  

Cheryl
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Desmond
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2004, 04:34:59 PM »

Make that 49 GWC finishes in the truck series with no serious injuries (though Rick Crawford got a huge scare Saturday night).
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Cheryl
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2004, 05:00:11 PM »

Quote from: "Desmond"
Make that 49 GWC finishes in the truck series with no serious injuries (though Rick Crawford got a huge scare Saturday night).


As I told Lou and Sally, it was like NASCAR told them to go out there and flip over a bunch of trucks on the multiple restarts just to prove NASCAR's point that the drivers can't be trusted.  Jeesh!  

But I did quite enjoy Ray Dunlap calling Kenny Wallace out on his condemnation of the rule.  I was hoping we were gonna see "a rumble" between the two on pit road after the race.   :lol:   I would've been on Ray's side in that fight.

Man! I like Kenny Wallace, but his mania during that broadcast drove me up the wall.  It was worse than DW in some respects.  "Thriller in Manilla?"  Where the hell did that come from and why did he have to keep repeating it so often?   Bring back Johnny Benson, please!

Cheryl
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marrtinigirl
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2004, 05:24:07 PM »

Cheryl, I see what you mean about not trusting the drivers, but, well...

Tony booted Kasey on a restart...

The "big one" at the restrictor plate tracks is usually caused when everyone is pushing to the fron as the race grows closer to the end, and usually on a restart...

You get the top 10 itching for a win on the final three laps when it means more on the restart, I'm sorry, I have to agree with NASCAR, it's going to be a mess.  

This is the premiere series, and with that comes large egos and drivers who think they are better than everyone else.  You get a lot of impatience, and unfortunately, I think that that will cause a whole lot of trouble.

I hope that I am wrong, since this is what we are getting.  I hope that we don't see lots of wrecks on the last three laps, but I doubt it, seriously.

But, since there is so much talk about it, we probably won't have the need for it the rest of the year.  that's the way things go it seems....
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ronbarnes77
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2004, 06:46:12 PM »

martingirl that statement  about  the big one at plate tracks coming on restarts is not exactly true.most big ones come ibecause drivers very simply    are being reckless.
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