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Author Topic: Lucky Dog and Freezing Field Just a Joke  (Read 1883 times)
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Cheryl
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« on: August 06, 2006, 11:53:16 PM »

I can appreciate the need for safety on the track and why the "field freezing" came about; however...things just get more and more bizarre and confusing every week.

I can't even keep track of the variances on the Lucky Dog rule when drivers are mutliple laps down.  Today and Jeff Gordon give a perfect example.  He was 3-4 laps down and somehow he got them all back by coincidentially by timely cautions, etc.  

When he was only two laps down, even Benny and Wally asked the same thing I was thinking separately on the restart.  Why was he not restarting next to the leader? So he could actually try to race the leader and earn them back (which I'm sure he would have preferred).  Finally someone explained if you get the free pass you must start at the end of the longest line.   If two former drivers and current commentators can't keep track of the nuances of this fake rule, how the hell is the average fan suppost to keep up with it?   :?   Or it that what Baby Brian wants?  To keep us so confused we don't know what's going on, so they can slip in their timely "competition cautions" and mysterious debris cautions and manipulate the entire race?  

I'm not knocking Gordon, he obviously made the most of the rules as they are today (as opposed to last race, last week or last month).  It just seems like they didn't use to get a lap back if they were multiple laps down.  I understand no one else was laps down when he lost his laps, but the whole deal was nearly impossible to understand.  Of course, maybe it was the mind-numbing boredome of 90% of the race.  

Then on the final lap of the race first they first didn't throw a caution for the incident when R. Gordon wrecked whoever it was.  Then after they seemed sure Johnson crossed the line, they finally thru a yellow and checkers, which was the oddest thing if you ask me.  Yes, we saw there was a second more dangerous wreck where Kahne hit the wall hard.  After seeing he was alright, all I could think was that if they froze the field, that gipped several drivers out of the positions they gained by getting past the wrecked cars and taking the checkers.

One car I saw go by was Kurt Busch and I'm thinking how unfair if he didn't get credit for that pass because of their silly scoring loops!  Then when NBC finally showed the finishing order, I saw that Busch and some others actually got credit for picking up those positions, which is good IMHO.  So if the field was frozen, how does this happen?  I know there's some caveat about "forward momentum," but the whole thing since freezing the field started, just adds so many ridiculous situational variiables.  Just leads me to believe, it gives NASCAR more things to alter the outcome to be the most favorable for their favoriates or "the story."  

 :roll:

Cheryl "who just wants them to all to earn their positions by racing"
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cowboy271
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2006, 02:29:44 AM »

Cheryl, thanks for beating me to the punch on this.  I'm not a fan of racing back to the yellow nor the lucky dog...don't know what the alternative may be; but when I saw Gordon's situation, I realized he may be 3/4 laps down (obviously NBC couldn't tell)..and the "lucky dog' rule may allow him to win (and I am a Gordon fan).  Still, the idea of that is appalling.

There was one allusion to an interesting situation in the past (before the lucky dog?, when Dale Jarrett came back from four laps down...would have loved to seen the Gordon's camp strategy without the lucky whatever:)

  One other thought...if a caution is thrown on the last lap and the field frozen...doesn't that negate the GWC?
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sally
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2006, 11:39:30 AM »

The end of the race was a complete joke!  Spend what, 5 or 6 laps showing JJ all by himself, way out front so Bill Webber can give a melodramatic synopsis of the entire history of Hendrick Motor Sports?  Miss the wreck that (finally) brought out the final caution?
The one opportunity JG had to 'race' his way to get a lap back failed, so you just GIVE him 3 laps back?  Is there a bigger joke than the Charity Lap?
Hurry to coverage of an exhibition football game?
Oy.

Sally
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Desmond
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2006, 05:49:41 PM »

Quote from: "cowboy271"
One other thought...if a caution is thrown on the last lap and the field frozen...doesn't that negate the GWC?


**This post edited by moderator**

Yes.  The race ended at that moment, and Johnson was declared the winner, which was inevitable anyway. Smiley

I also want to draw attention to how quickly the unofficial full-field rundown was available yesterday compared to Daytona, which ended under similar circumstances.  I can only explain this by the cars running in a more scattered formation throughout the track, rather than in bunches.  So it was easier for NASCAR to interpret the scoring loops.
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Cheryl
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2006, 06:12:48 PM »

Real interesting article by Jim Utter of thatsracin.com about that last "debris" caution.  Kind of proves that NASCAR jumps the gun whenever they see an opportunity lately:

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/sports/motorsports/15213923.htm

Cheryl
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cowboy271
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2006, 04:33:58 AM »

Cheryl, that post brings back one of my long standing gripes about the "new NASCAR", Cautions are just too inconsistent.  Not too long ago, if a car spun and wound up in the infield, a caution wasn't thrown until it was determined the car needed assistance by the safety crew.  Now it seems a caution is thrown before the care spins 45 degrees. (seemingly dependent on circumstances).   Ohh and then the debris cautions...with available video technology, TV can show you the logo on a driver's glove for "debris"), but  NASCAR can't seem to tell if it's a spring or a spring rubber.  I gotta quit this:)
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Cheryl
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2006, 12:26:12 PM »

Quote from: "cowboy271"
I gotta quit this:)


Nope, don't quit.  You make some excellent points, James!  Especially the one about someone getting only 45 degrees sideways.

I've had my conspiracy theories about "debris on a loop" this whole season.  NASCAR just tells the TV booth to queue up a shot of some debris on a video loop that they can play over and over again whenever the field is too strung out or one of their favorites is about to be lapped.  Then there's the "cheer/boo" audio track they seem to queue up depending on what happens with Earnhardt, Jr. or Gordon.  Next thing, they'll be doing CGI to show the stands are full (kind of like the driver pictures ESPN projects on the track for Indy cars).  The possibilities are endless.

But seriously, I've seen the same type of one-car spins where years ago, no caution would ensue, but now NASCAR is looking for any excuse to throw the caution depending on the circumstances.  The fact they didn't throw it for the R. Gordon/Biffle wreck was quite surprising on Sunday.  As they pointed out on IWCR, that probably contributed to that hard hit Kahne took because they didn't throw the caution at the first wreck.  

Cheryl
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Desmond
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 04:42:09 PM »

At least Bill Weber stressed that, "these are unofficial..."
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Vivian
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2006, 10:29:09 PM »

They tried to explain on Inside Cup how Jeff got all the laps back and why he started at the back, but it is still hogwash to me.

Also I noticed two other things.  The finishing order was changed between 8th & 9th and then I noticed that the truck race winner got more money than the Busch race winner did.

And I am not bashing, but I also thought Mikey looked very tired and old on that show.  JMO....
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Cheryl
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 01:17:34 AM »

Quote from: "Vivian"
And I am not bashing, but I also thought Mikey looked very tired and old on that show.  JMO....


Hey, I'm sure he had a tough week - not making the race and all.  But obviously he was there to be in the pits for Bill's team (which suprised me bit, but I guess he's taking his owership role seriously).  

Frankly, I didn't even know Bill was in the race until it was mentioned on IWCR.  TV sure didn't spend any time showing him, which is a surprise if he was in a Burger King car - with the number of commercials they obviously paid for during the broadcast.

Cheryl
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cowboy271
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 03:22:45 AM »

OK, I'm probably banned after this one, but c'mon. Awesome Bill managed to qualify a Chevy when the big dog's Dodge didn't make the race.  BDR has already voiced their displeasure with Mikey and to see Elliott qualify was bittersweet.  The thing that makes my lil hangy down reproductive things wanna crawl up and hide under my armpits is Bill Ellliott in a Toyota....Sorry...Be well Y'all:)
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sally
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 12:37:15 PM »

:smt041

I almost sprayed my morning coffee all over my computer screen!

Sally
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Cheryl
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 03:19:07 PM »

Quote from: "Desmond"
At least Bill Weber stressed that, "these are unofficial..."


The results are always unofficial at the end of the TV/radio broadcasts (and always have been). NASCAR has always released the official results on Monday, I believe. That's one tradition that hasn't been changed.

Cheryl
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Cheryl
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 03:21:06 PM »

Quote from: "cowboy271"
OK, I'm probably banned after this one,


No banning for that, James! I'm still laughing too hard.  But spoken like a true Ford fan.

I can't believe Bill will go over to "the dark side" either. Plus I have a $20 bet with Lou he wouldn't do it (and I've never been a Bill fan).

Cheryl
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Cheryl
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2006, 07:27:48 PM »

On this topic from yesterday's article by David Poole at thatsracin.com:

"NASCAR has to stop officiating races with one eye on the scoreboard.

You admire them, to a degree, for wanting to allow cars to race on the final lap. But there's no question that the caution should have come out Sunday at Indianapolis when Robby Gordon and Greg Biffle wrecked in Turn 2.

If the yellow had been out, the field would have been frozen and the cars would have slowed down. Most likely, that would have prevented the Turn 3 wreck in which Kasey Kahne drilled the wall and wound up knocking himself out of the top 10.

If NASCAR is going to throw the yellow for one chunk of debris on Lap 142, it has to apply the same standard on the last lap. That's the only fair way to officiate a race.

The way things played out on Sunday, officials put themselves in a predicament.

Kahne wrecked and he wound up finishing 36th because NASCAR ruled his car couldn't continue after the incident. Tony Raines, however, was credited with 11th because he kept on going.

But Raines ran over a huge piece of debris from Kahne's car and

basically tore up the entire underside of his No. 96 Chevrolet. He made it to the start-finish line and parked, not wanting to do more damage.

But that car wasn't going to be able to continue, either, and 11th position paid 130 points while Kahne got 60 for his finish.

If Kahne had those 70 points, he'd be eighth in the standings. But he's actually 11th, and that's at least partly due to NASCAR wanting to call races one way early and another way late."

He makes some excellent points that most of us already realize.  The rest of the article is about "tweaking" the Chase and other stuff, but can be found at:  

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/15232985.htm

Cheryl
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