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Author Topic: What a confusing state of affairs!  (Read 2551 times)
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Vivian
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« on: June 07, 2004, 05:56:08 PM »

I could have sworn I was watching a whole other track.  And the time Nascar spent trying to figure out things.  I could have sworn there was a new moon.   :?   I never figured out why they warned Terry.  That was one of the most bizarre things ever.  And they never said a word to Biffle when he got into someone's rear.  They warned Robbie, which I don't think he was too antsy either.  Where were they coming from with those two warnings?  Then the length of the cautions.  The very last one I understood though it was not called for.  I jus think they totally screwed up yesterday when it came to officiating and making calls.  Had they all been up all night in the casino and just weren't able to think ahead or think period???  Am I being too rough on them?  I think not.  Just watching on tv I could see stuff that should have been called and I could see stuff they shouldn't have called so what were they doing?  Even the broadcast crew was more confused than ever.

Tell me what you all think...race only in this thread, please.  Thanks....
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BAM24/25
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2004, 06:59:04 PM »

It was the most awful officiating I have seen.  Why run 40 caution laps?  If you are that confused red flag the race and figure it out.  Also they red flagged the race to clean the track, then start them up and run NINE more caution laps to finish cleaning the track!! :evil:   What the heck was that???
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Lou
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I wish my seat at the track was this close!


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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2004, 08:27:28 PM »

Wow. What a cornucopia of events. The only thing left that didn't happen was damage to the track from all of the heat put into it by the hours of jet-drying!

I was listening to the NA$CAR officials on one of their frequencies during the scoring fiasco. I don't know who it was that was the "authority" speaking on the channel, but boy did he sounds VERY indecisive. I expect officiating (in any sport) to be decisive and confident. What I heard was confusion and frustration and uncertainty.

And it's not the first time this year that I've been sitting in the stands and seen large groups of fans all looking toward the "official tower area" and yelling about "why isn't the race started back up. Why is it still under caution." The dissension of the fans in the stands toward the ineptness of the officiating is growing and growing. No wonder debris from the stands ends up on the track.

This picture describes the Dover weekend - cars running at caution flag speed behind the pace truck with jet dryers doing their thing.....



Lou "my man finally won" Lauer
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Vivian
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2004, 10:21:16 PM »

A BIG WELCOME to you, Bam24/25 !
Since you are 24/25 fan, I am to assume you are not connect to #49 or Beth Ann Morganthal, right?

I think they were going to green then realized that the race would start double file and didn't want any more cautions and they kept the trucks out drying and ran the caution laps until they could restart - as per rule - single file.  :roll:   I don't know why following that rule mattered as it seemed that not many others mattered that day.  I do know that time wise one time they showed 2 hrs racing and 2 hrs, 5 min under caution or red flag.  Everything just seemed to be in turmoil or confusion all day.

Can't wait to see the times that JW comes up with for actual racing versus other stuff like commercials.

Great picture, Lou!
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sally
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2004, 03:41:54 AM »

I'm sure Nascar will excuse their ineptitude by saying their policy is "a work in progress".  However, no progress has been made since they began...in fact, it gets worse every week.  Brian France is certainly embarrassing himself and Nascar more every week! :roll:  Sally
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jw
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2004, 06:10:19 AM »

Here's how Caution Flag #8 Played Out:

1. started on Lap 320 with Ryan Newman spinning on pit road
2. Caution Ended on Lap 346
3. Length of Caution Period:  26 Laps
4. Time UNDER THIS CAUTION:  32 minutes & 57 seconds
5. FX Commerical Breaks DURING Caution #8: 4 breaks for 10:31
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Lou
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I wish my seat at the track was this close!


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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2004, 01:08:14 PM »

Quote from: "jw"
4. Time UNDER THIS CAUTION:  32 minutes & 57 seconds

That's all huh? Sitting through it in the stands, it felt like 32 days! It was long enough that the fans got restless enough to get the "wave" going in the grandstands - something they usually reserve for rain-delays :-)

Lou
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Cheryl
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2004, 01:54:58 PM »

Quote from: "Vivian"
I could have sworn I was watching a whole other track.  And the time Nascar spent trying to figure out things.  I could have sworn there was a new moon.   :?    Then the length of the cautions.  The very last one I understood though it was not called for.  I jus think they totally screwed up yesterday when it came to officiating and making calls.  Had they all been up all night in the casino and just weren't able to think ahead or think period???  Am I being too rough on them?  I think not.  Just watching on tv I could see stuff that should have been called and I could see stuff they shouldn't have called so what were they doing?  


Okay, I'm rested up from the weekend now and ready to let loose with my tirade about Sunday.  As Staci said, you better take a bathroom break now because this is gonna be a real long one.

First off, let me explain that when I said I left the race early, you have to understand the moment of that action for me.  I NEVER leave races before they are over because you really do not know what's going to happen until th last lap.  For me to leave Sunday, I guess, is just another step in my 12 steps in kicking my addiction.  

But Sunday, I lost what little respect I had left for the NASCAR officials making the decisions in the tower.  When I saw them dragging out the final caution to ensure a single-file restart, that was the last straw, so I left.  

Yes, I knew that they'd been prolonging every caution most of this year to sort out the field under there stupid freezing the field rule and their even dumber charity pass back to the lead lap.  I saw it at Martinsville and wasn't happy then and we've seen it every week on TV lately.  But to see it Sunday AND hear crews questioning it brought home that it's not just the fans who feel they are being cheating out of green-flag laps by NASCAR.  On one of the early cautions, I caught someone on the 48 team question what was taking them so long to restart the race.  I heard Chad Knaus respond that they keep doing this all the time now (with frustration in his voice) and that he guessed they were giving guys more time to work on their cars.  I'm sorry, but is this racing or a social welfare system?  

Then like Vivian, I saw times when they delayed excessively in throwing a caution and the aftermath of that indecision, like when Mears oiled down the track and Kahne, Vickers and Kenseth paid the price.  I saw them throw the caution too quickly at other times like when Rusty got into the wall.  

I saw the total ineptness with which they dealt with the situation when Newman spun entering the pits.  Even though he hit the tires at the entrance of pit road dislodging them and spraying water all over the entrance, they ran numerous laps under caution before red-flagging the race.  This was clearly a situation that would require a while to clean up, yet they wasted more yellow flag laps before cleaning it up.  In this situation, NASCAR contributed to the confusion about scoring themselves, by allowng the 12 to come through the pits and back around until he ran out of gas and needed a push into the pits.  Then they red-flagged the race, cleaned up the mes, and then ran more laps under yellow trying to sort out the field after they lifted the red-flag.  Like Lou, I heard some official on the scanner who was being told that Dave Blaney's team (#23) was questioning the line-up because they had passed Newman on pit road.  Then the guy was told that the 6 team was claiming they were the only ones on the lead lap.  It was clear by this time that the official had made up his mind on the running order and was not about to change it no matter what.  This arrogance by NASCAR is what really bothers me.  More of their "it is what it is" crap.  

It's no wonder that the competitors were frustrated after this extended period under caution.  Personally I feel this contributed to the big wreck that occurred not too long after they went back to racing.  I haven't watched the tape yet and wasn't looking right at it when it occurred, but several competitors said that Michael Waltrip bounced off the wall and into Blaney, triggering the multi-car wreck that took many of the top cars out of the race.  When he first got hit, I flipped to Blaney's channel and heard someone on his team say "NASCAR f***ed us because of where they made us line up."  Granted that remark was in the heat of the moment, but I couldn't help but agree with them to a certain extent because of the way NASCAR mishandled the whole caution and resetting of the field.  

Yet, despite several top cars being swept up in this fiasco, I stayed and watched more, thinking it HAD to get better.  Silly me...I found it could only get worse.  Then the non-call on Mears and the result was Kahne and other top competitors got taken out because of NASCAR's mismanagement.  

Next I heard them penalize Rusty on pit road, causing him to lose 2 laps.  Okay, I know Rusty is notorious for getting the most speeding penalties, but he kept asking his crew chief why they gave him the stop sign when he clearly beat the pace car at the line.  I figured it was just more of the bad judgment calls by the officials, and got more and more disgusted.  

So when the final caution of the day came out it was like 15+ laps from the end.  I watched NASCAR mess around again delaying opening the pits for 2+ laps, then keeping the caution out longer and longer.  I was scanning the few remaining teams left on the lead lap.  I heard crew after to crew disgustedly say "they're probably gonna keep it out until it's less than 10 to go, so they can have a single-file restart."  When I saw this was probably going to be the case, I just had it with the terrible officiating and told Lou I was leaving.  I knew he was hoping Mark would hold on for the win, but I didn't have his faith and based on his strong run all day, figured Stewart would blow by him on the restart.  I also felt the lack of lapped cars on the inside would make for a completely different race at the end than the one that should've occurred had NASCAR not wasted so many laps to get a single-file restart.  

Now that I've heard the stats that they ran almost one-quarter of the race under caution, I'm even more incensed.  I paid $84 for my ticket and sure don't feel I got anywhere near my money's worth of "racing" for that price.  

As I walked back to the campground, I was so disgusted that I questioned if I'd ever want to go to another NASCAR race again.  We have tickets for Richmond and Martinsville, and despite the fact, I love short tracks, I don't know if I want to give them my money to sit through more of these poorly run fiascos again.  When you compare the way NASCAR does things this year to the consistent and strict officiating we see at USAR races, it really is clear that NASCAR has an agenda that really doesn't take the fans into consideration.  They seem to believe they are providing us a good "show," but what all I see them doing is making a farce out of what was once a good sport and doing more and more to insult the intelligence of both those of us spending hard-earned money to go to races and the people watching at home.  

Matt McLaughlin had something in his article this week about how NASCAR's credibility took such a major hit Sunday if they officiate every race perfectly for the next month they might be able to raise their credibility even with the WWE.

I couldn't agree more and I just don't know how long it will be before I don't care to spend ANY money attending their races anymore.

Again, I aplogize for the diatribe, but I really needed to get this off my chest.

Cheryl
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Vivian
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2004, 08:03:46 PM »

Gee whiz, JW.  If caution #8 played out like that, I am not sure I want to see the rest of the commercial and red/caution flag time.  Just kidding.  That was an amazing time consumption for only one caution.  The commercials I guess were about normal.  The green flag racing was very little, far between and just downright skimpy, imo.   :evil:
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BAM24/25
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2004, 10:11:22 PM »

Thanks for the welcome Viv.  No BAM is my initials.  I am a diehard Jeff Gordon fan and now also Brian Vickers.  Hopefully this Sunday will be a more enjoyable race for everyone! Cheesy
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Cheryl
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2004, 12:41:20 AM »

Quote from: "BAM24/25"
Thanks for the welcome Viv.  No BAM is my initials.  I am a diehard Jeff Gordon fan and now also Brian Vickers.  Hopefully this Sunday will be a more enjoyable race for everyone! Cheesy


Welcome BAM!  Would you object to sharing your first name with us?  We kind of like to know names around here.  It makes it more "homey."   Cheesy

I'm glad to see someone joining besides DE, Jr. fans.  The rest of us were starting to feel outnumbered around here.   :wink:

Brian Vickers sure is a nice kid!  I have followed him from when he was in the USAR (Hooters) series 3 years ago and I'm glad to see him be able to showcase his talent with a top organization.  I listened to his team on the scanner for a while on Sunday where he was the recipient of the free pass.  I wanted to hear what instructions he got from NASCAR and when he was allowed to move up to pit, etc.  It was quite humorous to hear his crew chief tell him at least four times to drink the entire bottle of Gatorade that they had put in his drink bottle during after pitstop.  I guess they were worried about him dehydrating or something.  But when Brian talked to his team about pitting and things, he certainly sounded in control and not like a rookie.  I was very impressed with his maturity.

Cheryl
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Vivian
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 12:43:10 AM »

BTW, Bam - Love your signature.  Isn't it strange how we do get runaways in most of the races nowadays?

What does B stand for and maybe we can call you that?  Bam is neat, too though.
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ronbarnes7777
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 02:40:53 PM »

i'm curious asto why they{nascar}didn't red flag the race to correct the problems.also did nascar not throw that lap 382 caution flag on purpose to destroy kasey's chances to win?
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BAM24/25
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 02:51:52 PM »

Hey guys - my first name is Beth.  I was really lucky at Vegas and Cali because I got Brian's autograph on a ton of stuff - my jacket, couple of diecasts, license plates, my ticket holder, two hats - practically everything I have of his is autographed..lol. Cheesy

FYI - my signature line is also what I have around my license plate on my car which is a 2003 Monte Carlo SS limited edition pace car.  I love my car. Tongue
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Cheryl
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2004, 03:03:36 PM »

Quote from: "BAM24/25"
Hey guys - my first name is Beth.  I was really lucky at Vegas and Cali because I got Brian's autograph on a ton of stuff - my jacket, couple of diecasts, license plates, my ticket holder, two hats - practically everything I have of his is autographed..lol. Cheesy

FYI - my signature line is also what I have around my license plate on my car which is a 2003 Monte Carlo SS limited edition pace car.  I love my car. Tongue


Well, welcome again BETH!!!  

Cool on the signatures and car!  Let's see, now we have at least two Monte Carlo drivers and one Grand Prix GTP driver (me) in our little group.   Cheesy

Cheryl
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