November 23, 2017, 02:47:26 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Caution downer  (Read 6495 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Vivian
Guest
« on: April 26, 2004, 04:21:55 AM »

is what I am on after that finish today.  Not because my favorite did not win but that Nascar wasted a good 10-12 miles by finishing it that way.  I felt so let down at the end of the race.  Like a kid who raced down the stairs to find someone had stolen the Christmas tree and Santa had not come to my house.  :?   I truly felt after such a tight race and so much competition that it would have been great to see a green, white, checkered flag finish.  Although my general opinion is that people should NEVER throw stuff on the track, I can understand their upset and the need to express their opinion on the way Nascar chose to let the race end.  It was a breathtaking race most of the day and to end under yellow was just not what most fans wanted to see.  I am glad no one got hurt and that was a big plus for me.  But I loved the competition.  I especially enjoyed the fact that Tony consented to an interview and he did not seem sullen or upset other than the fact that it was typical restrictor plate racing.  People seem to scrutinize him so much more and keep him under a microscope for what he does and seem to overlook it when other drivers do the same thing.  Yes, I am a Tony fan in case anyone is curious and yes, I know he does stupid things but I am proud that he did an interview today, even if he might have been in the wrong.
Logged
17RoushFan
Veteran
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2004, 09:18:39 AM »

Yeah, it stunk to see the race end that way. I read that NASCAR absolutely hates one-lap shootouts due to the safety issues, which is why the "1-to-go" signal was not displayed with 2 laps left. While I understand the safety stuff, wouldn't they already be scared of the big wreck with drivers running hard with less than 10 laps left anyway? Just another unsolved mystery. Just sad that NASCAR will allow a green-flag finish in the Trucks and All-Star races, but not in Cup points races. Oh, well. At least as fans, we can almost always count on at least forty lead changes at Talladega, regardless of how much NASCAR tries to change the sport.
Logged

 tuned in to watch some commercials, but when they went to break, i saw a nascar race!
John
Wiley Veteran
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 136


WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2004, 11:23:53 AM »

I believe the fans in the "Sea of Red" were not upset about the way the race finished, but the fact that they thought Dale Jr. was in the lead at the time of the caution and it was then determined that Jeff Gordon was in the lead.  That is when all the trash got thrown out on the track.  Compare the cheers for Jr. and then the boos for Gordon.

Like him or not, Chris Myers hit the nail on the head.

It is possible that the garbage being throw on the track actually hindered the ability of NASCAR going back to green for a final restart.  They had announced the lap that they would not throw the red flag and they stuck with it.  The trouble is with 4 laps to go, they would have to reset the field quickly and give the one to go signal on 3 laps to go, green with 2 laps to go, white on 1 lap to go and then the checkered flag.  They would have been rushed to get this done and then if something happened bad, they would have been critizied for rushing the restart.

Don't forget, these cars are trying to get their fuel through a straw and it takes a good 2 laps to get up to speed and there would be no momentum for anyone to make a move for the win while trying to get up to speed.  The trucks, remember, do not have restrictor plates.  

While disappointing, there really is a no win situation.

If there is anything to be questionnable about, is how they determine who was in the lead at the time of the caution.  I know FOX showed a freeze frame picture, but unless I missed it, I did not see a yellow light in that picture.  It will be interesting how they will prove it.
Logged

ommy Baldwin after Tropicana 400:  "This is NASCAR's world, we just live in it."
sally
Guest
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2004, 11:53:13 AM »

The first time fans threw stuff on the tracks was at Daytona when Mikey won under caution.  Not just because Jr didn't win.  After all, he doesn't win more than he wins, right?  I think the fans are angry because Nascar takes so many laps to sort things out, what with the charity lap, freezing the field, and all the other bull.  Nascar takes so long to do all this that fans are being robbed of several green flag laps a race, and a possilbe green flag finish.  I didn't see a definitive answer about who was in front when the yellow came out, either.  Nascar needs to use GPS or SOMETHING so there aren't these kinds of questions.
     
I did think it was funny that Jr was smart enought to know that staying up by the wall kept him out of the trajectory of the  trash being thrown.

Question:  Is the wireless company that cheap, that the "post race show" they sponsor is only 5 minutes long?  Just asking.
Sally
Logged
John
Wiley Veteran
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 136


WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2004, 12:17:12 PM »

Sally, If you have a tape of the race, compare the sounds of the crowd.  They were screaming with cheers when they thought Jr was in the lead compared to when they put Gordon in the lead.  And when Gordon came down to take the checkered, the fans were pelting his car!  If the fans did not like the way race ended, why take it out on Gordon?! (Personally, I'm glad they did.  No, even Gordon didn't deserve that. :lol: )  I don't say this because Gordon wins all the time (at least not anymore), but because Talladega is Earnhardt country.  If Junior was in front, I sincerely think there would have been no garbage.

We can take this opportunity to say that NASCAR frigged it up because of the charity lap and all the other things that go along with it.  But we have what we have and everyone has the same rules to deal with.  We could sit here and say "shoulda, coulda, woulda", but as DW said about the last pit stop, "These are the cards your delt, do what you can with them."

I would love to say that if Davey Allison were alive, Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon would not have won the championships they did.  But he's not here and I can't say it.  "Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda".
Logged

ommy Baldwin after Tropicana 400:  "This is NASCAR's world, we just live in it."
Cheryl
Moderator
Hall of Fame
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5407



WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2004, 01:21:08 PM »

I have to agree with the points John makes.  When the crowd thought Junior was leading, they were cheering wildly.  Then when NASCAR announced that it was Gordon, they turned ugly.  True, many were probably mad because the race was not restarted, but had Junior been declared the leader, I'm betting there wouldn't have been stuff thrown on the track the way it was done.  It seems to me that Mikey beat Junior that time at Daytona as well, but I really can't remember anything but the fans throwing trash on the backstretch.  Regardless of who did the throwing, it shows how rude and unsportsmanlike these fans were.  Booing is fine, but throwing stuff on a track, particularly a high-speed track like Talladega and Daytona, is just dangerous!

I also agree with everyone here about the unecessary delays the last few weeks during caution periods.  Yesterday, twice, we saw nothing but a piece of tire carcass and yet NASCAR wasted many needless laps running under caution.   Having to sort out the field because their stupid freezing the field and free pass rules.   I know I felt cheated out of laps sitting at home just like I did last week at Martinsville.  It's just ridiculous that this is a result of a stupid rule to begin with (the free pass).  

Cheryl
Logged
jw
Wiley Veteran
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2004, 02:44:33 PM »

NASCAR really messed up on the finish.  It is hard to believe that it would take that many laps to set the field.  I was furious.
I was at the Pepsi 400 in Daytona when Michael Waltrip was showered with
seat cushions from the backstretch grandstands.  NASCAR messed up
that finish as well.  NASCAR needs to make an announcement to the fans
about where in the race the red flag WILL NOT come out.
Logged
Desmond
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3672



« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2004, 04:08:09 PM »

Three things from me:

1)I think the fans were responding more to the abrupt end of the race than to who won.  At Talladega, which is 2 2/3 miles around, a caution flag lap takes about 90 seconds.  Three caution flag laps, then, equal about 4 1/2 minutes.  That should be enough time for NASCAR to clear the involved car (there was only one--Vickers), reset the field, and at least try to run the last lap under green.  This is not a short track like Martinsville.  It could have been done.

2)No one at NASCAR is willing to listen to people who may tell them that they are wrong.  My character Buddy Wayne is one of those.  If he existed, he would have sent his girlfriend Shayla McLamb over to the white truck to persuade John Darby to restart the race.  And I'm convinced that this would have happened.  Click on the link below to find out what the Aaron's 499 would have ended.  Someone in real life has to follow his lead.

3)Did you know the last three Busch Series races have ended under caution?  I believe Clint Bowyer caused all of them, which would no doubt make him the least popular driver in the garage.  Oh, well, Kevin Harvick returns to the PayDay Chevy next weekend.
Logged

Buddy Wayne Barefoot, unhappy with Baby Brian's handiwork, finds his true passion.Smiley
Lou
Administrator
Living Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1045


I wish my seat at the track was this close!


WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2004, 05:18:04 PM »

Racing or Wrestling??

I believe the boos and trash were more a result of Earnhardt being placed in second position than they were because the race was not finished under green.

I believe that had the trash NOT been on the track, a 1 lap shootout would have resulted in tremendous carnage and might have been the only sane decision NASCAR has made recently.

I believe there were times where no caution flag was necessary - Tony Stewart's spin and go for instamce. Had no caution been waved to re-bunch the field and waste more laps, the final wreck involving Vickers may never have occurred and the controversial ending may not have happened. But as someone said - woulda, should, coulda...

Having gone to Talladega for over a decade until recently, I can attest to the "sea of red". That is part of the reason I no longer go there. When you begin to feel unsafe at a track because of a preponderance of bad fan behavior, it's time to stay home. Which is exactly what I chose to do. The behavior yesterday was no surprise to me at all and would have been the same for any number of situations where the 8 car did not win.

As for Clint Bowyer, he mave have been INVOLVED in the final caution for the Busch race, but getting spun out by a veteran Busch driver does not make him the cause of the yellow flag.

Quote
After all, he doesn't win more than he wins, right?

Ya lost me on this one Sally  :?

Lou
Logged

sally
Guest
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2004, 05:42:34 PM »

Sorry.], Lou.  Didn't mean to be obscure.  Junior has NOT won lots of races in the past several years without fans throwing things on the tracks.  If the response yesterday was truly just the actions of Jr fans being pissed, wouldn't that happen at every race he doesn't win?  I just think it's easy to blame a ceretain group of fans for bad behavior when none of us really knows how wide spread the reaction was.  And, DW and Larry DID say on the air that the reaction was because Jr didn't win.  I think that's tacky. Sad
Sally
Logged
Cheryl
Moderator
Hall of Fame
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5407



WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2004, 07:57:22 PM »

Quote from: "sally"
Junior has NOT won lots of races in the past several years without fans throwing things on the tracks.  If the response yesterday was truly just the actions of Jr fans being pissed, wouldn't that happen at every race he doesn't win?  


Here's a quote by Gordon from a Monte Dutton article where he talks about the people throwing stuff at him.  I think this says it all:

ďI took a lot of satisfaction out of a lot of things from that moment, and that was one of them,Ē Gordon said. ďAny time Junior doesnít win here and he has a shot at it, I think itís controversial. There are so many people pulling for him. He has a huge fan base. It was controversial for that and because we didnít go back to racing. I think they wanted to see him have a shot at it. "

I think the fans can accept it a lot better if Junior is nowhere close to winning or it's at one of the tracks at which he's not expected [by them] to win.  But in this case, a lot of his fans expected him to win and felt he was close.  So they felt NASCAR denied him the chance by not restarting the race and by declaring Gordon the leader by whateever method for freezing the field they chose to use yesterday.   It's not the same as if he was 2 seconds behind and there was a green flag finish.  There, they have no hope of a different outcome.

Cheryl
Logged
texasracefan
Rookie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2004, 08:22:49 PM »

Cheesy  newbie here, hi everyone.  the only problem I had with the ending yesterday was the way Gordon acted in winner's circle.  Even though jr's my boy(came over from being a fan of his dad),  I did not mind gordon winning until he climbed out of his car and put on that pathetic show of emotion.  That was even more embarrasing than the fans throwing stuff on the track.
Logged
Vivian
Guest
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2004, 08:40:35 PM »

WELCOME, TexasRaceFan!  Good to have you with us.  About Gordon, don't forget, he was trained well (by Brooke probably) to always be pc and and support sponsors well as they support him (and her, still) well.  :wink: I must say he does act and look a lot more natural and happier since she is out of his life.  JMHO.....
Logged
17RoushFan
Veteran
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2004, 12:40:16 AM »

welcome to the forum, texasracefan! yeah, knocking over the powerade and spiking the pepsi have me skeptical of jeff gordon also.

did anyone see totally nascar tonight? kasey kahne, along with a few other drivers got a higher grade than matt kenseth on the colored chart. c'mon, larry mac. only matt and jr. have 2 wins this year. yes, matt could use some work in the qualifying department and he has struggled a litttle bit, but he's done better than some of those drivers mcreynolds mentioned. b+ seems like an insult to me, despite my bias towards the dewalt car.
Logged

 tuned in to watch some commercials, but when they went to break, i saw a nascar race!
Cheryl
Moderator
Hall of Fame
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5407



WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2004, 01:49:07 AM »

Quote from: "17RoushFan"
welcome to the forum, texasracefan! yeah, knocking over the powerade and spiking the pepsi have me skeptical of jeff gordon also.



It's well known that Matt Kenseth is the one who patented the move of knocking the Powerade off the roof last season, thereby spawning the GIANT bottle the next week.  Not that I find a thing wrong with that!  I thought it was a smooth move myself and every time Matt does it makes me laugh.  :wink:

Cheryl
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!