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General Discussions => Race Talk => Topic started by: Bryan Blanton on April 05, 2005, 05:11:19 AM



Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Bryan Blanton on April 05, 2005, 05:11:19 AM
Did shane hmiel flip dale jarrett off it sure looked like he flipped dale jarrett off - gave him the bird to me but maybe i'm wrong or just seeing things again.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Desmond on April 05, 2005, 04:16:08 PM
Yes, he did, Bryan.

Here's how it went down: Hmiel, trying to gain track position during the final few laps, bumped into Jarrett, spinning him off the track.  Jarrett was escorted to the infield care center, but veered off and instead went alongside the 32 car.  Jarrett then shouted at Hmiel and thrust an index finger at the younger driver.  Hmiel then gave the finger.  I know this because, on the highlights shown on NASCAR Nation, part of the shot from inside the car was blurred.  Had to be Hmiel's bird!

The questions are: how much of a fine, how many points, and will he be suspended again?  Remember that Hmiel was suspended from the end of 2003 to the beginning of 2004 for violation of the substance-abuse policy. We never found out exactly what he was taking, but he was reportedly tested for drugs after some suspicious driving at a Busch Series race at Richmond in September 2003.

I'm afraid that the turnaround story has taken a bad turn.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: sally on April 05, 2005, 05:39:19 PM
I'm not apologising for what Shane Hmiel did, but I did take exception to the way the announcers handled the whole thing.  With 50 laps to go, they were saying that it was 'time to go'.  If a slower car wouldn't get out of your way a driver needed to bump him out of the way.  Then, when Shane Hmiel did exactly what they described needed to be done, they raked him over the coals for it.  Again, I'm not condoning what happened to DJ, but they made a big point of saying that Shane had 'run out of patience' the last few laps.  Either it's OK or it isn't.  Make up your mind, boys.

Sally


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Vivian on April 05, 2005, 09:45:50 PM
I found this article on Jayski and thought it sounded interesting, especially in reference to Shane Hmiel.

http://www.bristolnews.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=TRI%2FMGArticle%2FTRI_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031781966522&path=/sports/localsports&s=

The way he talked in one of his interviews his voice sounded all slurred to me and I wondered the same thing the above writer mentioned.  Maybe it is time?  Please keep in mind, this is just my opinion also.

 
Quote
It might be time for Hmiel to take another drug test. He'll be lucky to have a career half as long and distinguished as Jarrett, the 1999 Cup champion.


Yes, he gave him the bird and he was muttering something we could not catch but I can just imagine what it was.

As far as Truex is concerned, I think he should not have said what he said on the radio about not taking that from Bodine or anyone else and maybe they would have let his bump go.  Who knows?  But they had to do something after that remark.

Sally is right about the announcers.  They get excited, speak out  and then act amazed if someone does something.  They be a fickle bunch.  On all the replays though, it was obvious that Shane did not let off the gas the first time he touched him, just kept plowing and got him on the side after Dale got loose.  I don't even know if the announcers said anything about that or not.  If you watched Speed News or Inside Cup, then it was very obvious about all the incidents that the media choose not to criticize certain drivers while piling it on thick about others.  JMHO..


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: drpep (brian) on April 06, 2005, 02:03:31 AM
I know we are not supposed to criticize drivers here and I hope this is not but before I defend Shane, I am NOT a fan. He should be thankful Nascar gave him a second chance and a should remember how he put 41 others drivers in danger several years ago. That said, after his suspension he told Nascar to check him ANYTIME for illegal substances so I doubt there was anything funny going on. Also IN NO WAY should Shane be fined for flipping the bird. That was FX's, and  only FX's fault. They knew before choosing the in car camera shot that something innapropriate could happen, and it did. Besides , so what if the camera caught him flipping the bird, the world did not stop spinning and the sun came up this morning. If a child saw it why was he/she not in school? If a child was watching a smart parent should have seen the possibility of something offensive occuring and immediately shielded their precious offspring from such a nasty moment. I feel terrible  :roll: for anyone who may have experienced great emotional distress after seeing a raised middle finger.
  Now, could you imagine how the NBC crew would have handled all this brouhahah?? They would have been in their glory. Heck, they would have predicted it and played it up all during the pre race.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Cheryl on April 06, 2005, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: "drpep (brian)"
Also IN NO WAY should Shane be fined for flipping the bird. That was FX's, and  only FX's fault. They knew before choosing the in car camera shot that something innapropriate could happen, and it did. Besides , so what if the camera caught him flipping the bird, the world did not stop spinning and the sun came up this morning. If a child saw it why was he/she not in school? If a child was watching a smart parent should have seen the possibility of something offensive occuring and immediately shielded their precious offspring from such a nasty moment.


First off, I feel very strongly that it's not society's (or TV's) responsibility to protect people's children.  Parents should be responsible for what their kids watch.  That said, nothing offends me that I see or hear on race broadcasts (at least not from the competitors).   :wink:

Unfortunately, last year when Mike Wallace's comments about someone (I actually believe it happened to be Shane Hmiel) were accidentially caught on camera and microphone by Fox, he was fined by NASCAR.  I thought that was absurd at the time since he was not being interviewed and they just happened to have a microphone near him.  If you go with the same analogy, Hmiel should be fined for what he did Monday.  I'm not saying it was right last year or would be now just for the gesture.  (Coincidentially Wallace's comments happened during the Busch race at Rockingham which was also rain delayed until Monday.)  As with everything else that NASCAR has started the last couple of years in their attempts to be squeeky clean and rewrite history, they set the precedent last year.  

Trying to walk the fine line here on NOT bashing a driver, but like Brian, I'm not a fan of Hmiel's mostly because of the drug incident.  He has continued to not endear himself to me because of many things I've seen and heard from him since that time.  I never used to be a fan of Dale Jarrett's, but he is a former Winston Cup champion, a clean driver for the most part, and one of the truly nice guys in the sport, so I think he deserved a lot more respect that he got from that young man on Monday.  He didn't resort to punching the kid or foul language (that we could tell).  To do what Hmiel did after he turned his back seemed so very childish to me.  I think NASCAR sent the wrong message to him when they let him off so easily on the drug deal last year.  It appears to me that he now thinks he can do whatever he wants without reproach.  I think something needs to be done to get the message across that the other competitors deserve respect on and off the track.  What that is, I don't really know.  If we start fining every guy who flips someone off, every driver out there (except maybe Johnny Benson) would be guilty.   :wink:

In this case, I think Hmiel ought to be placed on that [mostly useless] probation.  Not for the hand gesture, but for the agressive driving that ended with what appeared to me as blantantly putting Jarrett into the wall.  I don't have a problem with a nudge here and there, but purposely putting someone in the wall has always been where I think guys go over the line.  Probation doesn't help most guys, but maybe it's the first step in getting Hmiel to calm down a bit.

Cheryl


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: old hot rodder on April 06, 2005, 03:29:29 PM
I just happened to be in my truck listening to XM right after the caution/red flag came out. One of the pit reporters caught up with Jarrett and asked what he had said to Hmiel.
 Jarrett's reply was that the content of the discussion was between he and Hmiel, but that there simply was not enough room on the track for the move that Shane tried to make.
 I thought that was a pretty classy response by Dale J.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Desmond on April 06, 2005, 04:18:02 PM
Here's something else to watch...

Because a handful of Fox affiliates (mostly in the Southeast) also broadcast the race, along with FX, Fox can be potentially fined for showing Shane Hmiel's middle-finger gesture.

However, NBC was not sanctioned when Dale Earnhardt Jr. cursed after winning the EA Sports 500 last October.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Cheryl on April 06, 2005, 05:54:14 PM
Not sure the actual source of this, but just got this in email from someone on my other racing group:

"Hmiel was penalized 25 driver points and fined $10,000
for an inappropriate gesture, violating Section 12-4-A
of the NASCAR Busch Series rule book (actions
detrimental to stock car racing). Hmiel has also been
placed on probation until August 31, 2005. The points
deduction will not alter Hmielís ninth-place ranking
in the standings. In addition, Hmielís car owner, Todd
Braun, was penalized 25 owner points."

Personally, I think fines and points deductions for "gestures" is over the top.  I mean, I like Jimmie Johnson and we've seen him flip off guys at least twice on TV (once earlier this year) and once a couple years ago at the Winston.  Like I said earlier, you might as well, just take the points and money from every driver now as it's gonna happen at least once with all of them.  I think probation alone would've been a more fitting first step in (as we say here where I work) "progressive discipline," but tie it to the rough driving not the gesture.

Cheryl


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: sally on April 06, 2005, 09:14:43 PM
I thought this gave an interesting perspective on the Jarrett/Hmiel incident from other drivers.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050406/COLUMNISTS0303/504060320/1062/sports

Sally


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Desmond on April 07, 2005, 04:10:26 PM
I agree with Cheryl.  Maintaining discipline at all times is just about impossible.  Remember, though, that we are living in times in which federal regulators and perhaps also the "right wing" are trying to influence our lives more than ever before.  Like it or not.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: drpep (brian) on April 07, 2005, 04:15:01 PM
Quote from: "Cheryl"

"Hmiel was penalized 25 driver points and fined $10,000
for an inappropriate gesture
Cheryl


  What a joke, especially the points. How many races have we seen where a driver sticks his hand out the window and the guys in the booth say "he's just telling so and so he is number 1". Nascar has gone too far on this one. I hope Fox helps Shane with the money part.


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Lou on April 07, 2005, 07:40:37 PM
Quote from: "Cheryl"
In addition, Hmielís car owner, Todd Braun, was penalized 25 owner points."


That, racefans, is the REAL joke about the NA$CAR disciplinary system. Penalizing the car owner because a driver flipped someone off. Geez, give me a break.

Is it any wonder why fans can't take anything NA$CAR does seriously?


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: sally on April 08, 2005, 11:53:47 AM
One other thing occurs to me.  Where was the 5 second delay that TV was supposed to institute after last year?  I certainly seemed as if they turned down the sound once DJ got wound up.  Do you suppose they thought they had too good a moment going to use good judgment?   Once again, TV is solely responsible for a driver getting fined.

Sally


Title: Question about something that happened in the bgn race?
Post by: Desmond on April 08, 2005, 03:56:24 PM
Fox has chosen not to use a delay system, and has no plans to install such a system in the future.  The FCC has not mandated its use, leaving the decisions to each individual network.

Also, cable/satellite services like FX are not subject to FCC regulations regarding indecency.  But some in Congress want to see this changed.