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General Discussions => Race Talk => Topic started by: BAM24/25 on August 03, 2004, 03:55:55 PM



Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: BAM24/25 on August 03, 2004, 03:55:55 PM
for putting his Lowe's sign in front of the Powerade bottles.  This has to be an all time low for Nascar.  Helton said don't knock them off.  JJ did not not.  He just put his sign in front of the bottles.  Nascar is so money hungry.  I have yet to understand how Powerade sponsors Gatorade Victory Lane.  :?  This whole product thing is out of control. :roll:


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 03, 2004, 04:04:50 PM
:roll: like i said last week i knew that jimmy of jeff would be the first to be fined for removing the logos.i hate to say i to you so.


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Desmond on August 03, 2004, 08:21:55 PM
What else could Jimmie Johnson have done?  He did not remove the bottle, as he and all other drivers were specifically told to do at the meeting in Loudon.  And he still has to pay $10,000! :x


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Vivian on August 03, 2004, 08:47:33 PM
They were talking protocol (sp?).  I guess they are thinking what will come next if we let it go.  I am not really sure how I feel about the fine other than now they will have to be consistant.  And maybe not....What if Jr or Sterling put a 6 pack up there when and if they win again???  It won't block but will amount to the same thing, sort of...This is all so confusing nowadays... :?


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: sally on August 04, 2004, 02:00:04 AM
The greed factor from Nascar and ISC is truly amazing.  At least JJ knows that he can get in a fight and lose the same amount of money!
Sally :?


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Cheryl on August 04, 2004, 12:43:50 PM
I saw the chance of a fine mentioned on Jayski yesterday.  In that blurb, it said something about a NASCAR official picking up the Lowes banner when it fell down.  That really made me wonder, then today, someone on my other racing list mentioned that the same thing was discussed on the John Boy & Billy radio show yesterday.  So, even though a NASCAR official "assists" Jimmie in breaking the rules, but only the driver gets fined?  What a double standard!  

It all goes back to NASCAR's greed, if they hadn't sold the rights to Victory Lane "naming" to Gatorade while taking on Powerade as the "official sports beverage of NASCAR," these problems would never exist.  When Gatorade was on the cars, everyone ignored it even if they weren't sponsored by them (and Pepsi, their parent company).  NASCAR has no one but themselves to blame, yet they're gonna take it out on the drivers.  I read a while back that the drivers feel that they have won the race and their sponsor has the right to be the sole represenative in Victory Lane (which I agree with).  But obviously, NASCAR only cares about the sponsors who are paying NASCAR money!  Just more in the Pepsi/Coke wars...

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Vivian on August 04, 2004, 04:41:09 PM
Okay, I have reached a decision.  I always try to look at both sides before making a firm decision on anything and at this point after weighing everything out, I have to agree that Nascar had to fine Jimmy.  They were told that Powerade had to stay.  By Jimmy putting the sign in front of the bottles it was like him saying, I can get around the rules, so up yours, Nascar.  This was like a slap in the face and they had to address it.  Sort of like when there is someone getting around the parts rule by fudging then getting caught.  Same thing in theory.  Now I know some of you are thinking I have lost my mind, but think about it.  Jimmy gets his sponsors in victory lane by his fire suit, his car and all his praise in his commentary.  They are getting their exposure.  Not to mention how much he has gotten on the track.  Powerade is an official drink and since it only has commercials, then Nascar and they agreed to have their bottles on the cars, regardless of who wins.  There is certain protocol you have to follow and by him doing something to block the bottles, he stepped over the line as far as that was concerned.  The money means nothing to Jimmy and it goes to the Racing Wives Auxillary or to the points fund at the end of the year and not into Nascar's account for them to use.  I think it was the principal of Nascar more of less saying, "You can't get around the rules by doing something that amounts to basically the same thing."  IMO

It is okay to disagree with me but please tell me why so I can weigh this situation out even more.  Thanks.


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 04, 2004, 04:46:00 PM
cheryl you've got a good point and i disagree with you vivian.nascar didn't have to fine jimmy they choose to.they created their own problems by making two conflicting deals.that's just pure bull and they know it.it's time owners speak out about this issue and fans need to sto alibing for nascar.


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: BAM24/25 on August 04, 2004, 04:50:38 PM
I agree.  If Powerade is the "official sports drink of Nascar" why can't they pick a different time or venue to promote it?  Does it have to be in Gatorade VL?  They have plenty of opportunities to promote it.  I think they are just trying to assert their power instead of coming up with a solution that suits everyone.  I still say the drivers should refuse to drive into VL.   :D


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Vivian on August 04, 2004, 04:58:29 PM
You are right Ron, they chose to but I still think it had to be done.  I am glad we can discuss this without anyone getting upset.  

Beth, your idea of not going to VL will open a can of worms no one would ever be able to close.  Good thought, tho.  Can you imagine the havoc?  Maybe they could arrange to run out of gas?  What a good idea!

Meanwhile, back to the fine, come on everybody, jump in with your opinion so we can agree to disagree - or not - or maybe - or whatever.   :twisted:


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Cheryl on August 04, 2004, 06:02:11 PM
Quote from: "BAM24/25"
If Powerade is the "official sports drink of Nascar" why can't they pick a different time or venue to promote it?  Does it have to be in Gatorade VL?  They have plenty of opportunities to promote it.  I think they are just trying to assert their power instead of coming up with a solution that suits everyone.  I still say the drivers should refuse to drive into VL.   :D


I guess my biggest problem with any product being the "official" whatever of NASCAR to begin with, is that if they really wanted to help racing, they ought to put that money on a car needing a sponsor!  Instead of giving it to the sanctioning body.  I feel that is a cheap way to get into Victory Lane and Gatorade deserves exclusivity there since they are actually associate sponsors on many winning cars.  Going back to Matt Kenseth who started this whole thing with knocking the Powerade bottles off last season.

Throughout my thinking all day, I couldn't help but think if Coke and Powerade want more time in Victory Lane, perhaps they need to jump to teams with more chance of winning.  I know it's just a coincidence, but Coke is spending it's money on Jarrett, Kyle Petty, Jeff Burton, Bobby Labonte, Harvick and a list of others who haven't won a single race this year.  Now I'm not knocking those drivers, just pointing out that if Coke and Powerade want to be in VL, they ought to reconsider who they fund next year, instead of hanging on the coattails of the teams who do win.  Does that make any sense?  I love Kyle Petty as a person, but honestly, does he have a chance to ever win again?

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 04, 2004, 06:15:08 PM
you are right vivian i will try to keep my opinion civil at all times .i just feel that  having two contracts with competing sposors was inviting trouble from the moment they rename vl. i feel nascar should be ashamed of themselves for causing their own problems and then scapegoating jimmy for them.


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: sally on August 04, 2004, 06:16:14 PM
Cheryl, I agree with you on principle.  However, the conflict was brought on by Nascar and ISC gouging BOTH Powerade and Gatorade as sponsors.  I must say I wonder if this draconian enforcement has anything to do with the fact that JJ has made no bones about the fact that he thinks the crapshoot stinks?  We all know that Nascar isn't above using coercion to make their point. :roll:
   
And how about the fact that, when the Loew's Logo slid off the roof, it was a Nascar official who put it back in place?
Sally


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Desmond on August 05, 2004, 04:14:48 PM
Oh, and the NASCAR official's name is Dave Finley.

Wonder what will happen to him?  Will he be punished like the man who turned on the caution light at the Charlotte truck race or the flagman at Pocono (the first race)?


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Vivian on August 05, 2004, 05:03:38 PM
David Poole has an article on this subject on That's Racin' today.  Got the link from Jayski.  Check it out if you get a chance.

BTW, Ron.  You are always civil.  It is okay to disagree and you don't have to apologize to me about you feeling differently than I do.  That is part of life and what makes it interesting.  Just as long as we don't put each other down and bash each other for feeling different.  That is the important thing.  Stay happy!   8)


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 05, 2004, 08:50:30 PM
point well taken vivian.


Title: Excellent Article
Post by: Cheryl on August 06, 2004, 02:15:19 PM
Here's a view from Mark DeCotis of Florida Today about this and every other ridiculous decision NASCAR has made this season:

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryS0806DECOTISDRILL0.htm

I particularly like the last sentence in this article.  It is SO true!

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 06, 2004, 03:35:05 PM
great article cheryl thaks for the link that last line is so true!!


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Lou on August 09, 2004, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: "Vivian"
Beth, your idea of not going to VL will open a can of worms no one would ever be able to close.

After Jeff's choice at the Brickyard, we're about to see how big the can was and whether they are worms or snakes inside of it...

I see NASCAR looking even more foolish this week when they make their decision on "what to do about the problem".

Next will come a points reduction for anyone not going to VL. Watch.


Lou


Title: Probably No Fine?
Post by: Cheryl on August 09, 2004, 01:24:02 PM
I thought what Gordon did was hilarious!  He made TV come to him.  But I'd actually read something yesterday on Jayski where he said he "had something planned" for the next time he won, so it wasn't surprising when he stopped and got out of the car at the start/finish line.  Just like they do on Saturday night short tracks! Take that NA$CAR!  Did you see all those NASCAR officials fultile efforts to herd everyone off the front stretch?   :lol:

Below is what Jayski has to report today.  Sounds like no fine.  More inconsistency of course, but I guess their rationale will be something like they couldn't fine the winningest active driver or 4-time champion...

From Jayski:
"'Bottle' Gate Continues? after winning the Brickyard 400, #24-Jeff Gordon, stopped at the yard of bricks / start-finish line and his team came out to the car and they celebrated there and not in Victory Lane, even a futile attempt by some NASCAR officials failed to get the team in Victory Lane [IMS Radio did report that later the #24 and the team made it to Victory Lane].
from a Chevy Notes - Gordon Brickyard Transcript with Jeff Gordon...
the querstion: I'll open up a can of worms maybe. When three other wins here, did you forget where Victory Lane was?
GORDON: I must have. I think it slipped my mind. I thought Victory Lane was where those bricks are out there. You know, you just react. I went down there, you know, thinking about a burnout or something like that. I stink at burnouts, so I just locked them up on the bricks and, you know, told the team to get out there. You know, your emotions are just going, and you're excited, the adrenaline's flowing. You know, I'm sure I'm going to get in some kind of trouble over it. But, you know what, right now I don't care (laughter). Also - Team owener, Rick Hendrick was called to the NASCAR Trailer afterwards.(GM/Chevy Notes)
AND been told that NASCAR said late Sunday that Jeff Gordon likely won't face a $10,000 fine, such as the one doled out to his Hendrick teammate Jimmie Johnson last week, after he parked his #24 DuPont Chevy on the front stretch instead of driving to victory lane where a rival Powerade bottle would have been placed on top of his car. Supposedly NASCAR felt Gordon's celebration was impromptu but the sanctioning body would address the issue if drivers begin ducking out of traditional victory lane celebrations.
AND some MORE: NASCAR spokesman Jim Hunter said officials would meet with team owner Rick Hendrick after the race. They also planned to meet with Gordon before deciding whether to issue a penalty. "We are exploring it," Hunter said. "I don't think it was preconceived. Hopefully, it was one of those impromptu things, where this is Indy and he won it. When he was finished (celebrating on the track), he went to Victory Lane. So the question is, was that ignoring our protocol?"(FoxSports/AP)(8-9-2004)"

Cheryl


Title: Mulhern's Article on "Bottlegate"
Post by: Cheryl on August 09, 2004, 01:43:31 PM
Here's what Mike Mulhern had to say about it.  I just love his point that
NA$CAR has made Victory Lane as demeaning as a battle between Eighth Avenue pimps.  

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031777187748&path=!sports!autoracing&s=1037645509202

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 09, 2004, 03:49:47 PM
see cheryl even the drivers think this stupid.nascar hasn't got two brain cells to rub together if they fine jeff for this.


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: old hot rodder on August 09, 2004, 04:36:58 PM
Jeff Gordon can pretty much tell Nascar to butt out and get away with it. He knows it and so does NASCAR. If they fine him he'll pay it and laugh at them. The whole deal is much ado about nothing.


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: sally on August 09, 2004, 05:30:47 PM
I think it depends on how pissed Brian France is.  He is obviously on a power trip the size of Texas.  It wouldn't surprise me if he decides to fine JG, and also dock him points to make sure everyone understands he IS THE BOSS!  Should get interesting.
Sally :roll:


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: BAM24/25 on August 09, 2004, 07:03:55 PM
Then they should have fined Harvick last year cause he did the same thing.  Jeff eventually  made it to VL and the car did too just not when the TV was on! :D  He might have gotten there faster if the TV announcers waited to interview him in VL.

Good job Jeff!


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Cheryl on August 09, 2004, 07:27:55 PM
Quote from: "BAM24/25"
Then they should have fined Harvick last year cause he did the same thing.  Jeff eventually  made it to VL and the car did too just not when the TV was on! :D  He might have gotten there faster if the TV announcers waited to interview him in VL.

Quote


Good point about the winner doing the same thing last year.  I didn't remember that.  But then we didn't have "bottlegate" last year either.  At least no one had made such a big issue about it when Kenseth was doing it in his quite way.   :wink: I think TV went out on the track because they were in "hurry up mode" because they had gone over their alotted time length.  Perhaps if they hadn't waited till so late to start the race, they'd have had enough time, even with the cautions.  They were obviously in a hurry to cut away to get to the local news here at 6:30 on the east coast.  Or else they think the whole thing is as ridiculous as the drivers think.  

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: sally on August 09, 2004, 07:29:45 PM
What a devilishly clever idea Beth!  I wonder how long the "celebration" would have lasted if there was no TV coverage outside VL?  Hmmm.  I wonder if NO TV time is better than having those blue bottles in the background?  Interesting.  Also, remember that Kevin is a Coke affiliate, and doesn't knock the bottles off the car.  Ahhh.  The good old days when a guy could just go to victory lane, climb out of the car whenever he wanted, and not worry about offending anyone who is putting $$$ in Nascar/ISC pockets!
Sally :wink:


Title: Good Article from Jeff Hammond
Post by: Cheryl on August 10, 2004, 01:03:40 PM
While I don't generally read the Fox web site, I saw the title of this article on Jayski and checked it out.  My favorite line is:  "We're looking at a dictatorship that's totally out of control and has lost its mind."  There's also an article by Larry McReynolds condemning NASCAR and Allen Bestwick said NASCAR's sponsors don't have any place on the winning car's roof last night on IWC.  I'm glad to see a few of the TV folks taking a stand on this issue.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2651778

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 10, 2004, 03:37:04 PM
good point cheryl i think there're right on this the tv partners do need to speak out on this and remember they're journalists first!


Title: Good Acronymns
Post by: Cheryl on August 11, 2004, 12:30:59 PM
Here's a post from a guy on my other racing list.  I thought everyone might find the acronymns he came up with for NASCAR very appropriate:

"Well we already know they are *N*ot *A* *S*anction that *C*ares
*A*bout *R*acing, they are a *N*onsensical *A*ssociation *S*olely
for *C*ollecting *A*d *R*evenue. It is *N*ot *A* *S*port, and it
*C*ertainly *A*in't *R*acing, but it is a *N*etwork of *A*ttorneys,
*S*alesmen, and *C*harlatans *A*t *R*acetracks there to ensure
that every *N*ormal *A*verage *S*chmo *C*oughs up *A*mple *R*iches."

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 12, 2004, 03:38:59 PM
hey cheryl that's extremely funny where do yo get these things?!!  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: Cheryl on August 12, 2004, 05:44:48 PM
Quote from: "ronbarnes77"
hey cheryl that's extremely funny where do yo get these things?!!  :lol:  :lol:


I belong to a private group of about 80 race fans that "seceded" from the newsgroup rec.autos.sport.nascar (r.a.s.n) back in 1996.  We were tired of the "this driver sucks" or "this driver rules" type posts, so we went to a private email list.  I guess that's the main reason I get concerned about too much cheering or bashing of drivers on this group.  I don't want to see that happen again.

A friend of mine from Missouri (who now lives in Fayetteville, NC) came up with those acronymns.  

Cheryl


Title: Hearing that Jimmie Johnson fined $10,000
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 12, 2004, 07:49:19 PM
i understand that's why i'm trying to limit my cheering for jeff gordon to a minnumm.