Speedcouch Forum

General Discussions => Race Talk => Topic started by: sally on August 02, 2004, 12:27:52 AM



Title: Pocono
Post by: sally on August 02, 2004, 12:27:52 AM
Pocono twice in 6 weeks.  Yawn.
Sally


Title: Pocono
Post by: Vivian on August 02, 2004, 03:57:52 PM
Another runaway for sure.  While doing the review and really listening to the broadcast, I realized how important the pit crews are and the set ups on the cars.  So I decided to keep an eye on in-pack changes and ignore JJ as it was apparent he was gonna win.  It is a challenging track and I guess if I look at it that way, then it was more interesting.   :wink:
One thing that confused me was if Ryan was at the tail end of the lead lap, why did they penalize him for being there?  That was confusing.  What didn't I get on that situation?  Also, Mark's interview was no more enthusiastic than when he finishes worse.  What is up with his attitude?


Title: Pocono
Post by: BAM24/25 on August 02, 2004, 04:08:52 PM
I am just exhausted from watching Jeff pass more cars than I did on the freeway in traffic.  He kept losing track position in the pits and then having to move back up through the field.  Nevermind the close call with Stewart.

Still a top five finish and second in the points.  Glad both Poconos are over.


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 02, 2004, 04:18:26 PM
Now granted I listened to the race on MRN driving back from Ohio yesterday, but there seemed to be a lot of passing and action throughout the pack.  Just not in the top five during the last 40 laps or so.  So, as usual, I focused on the overall race, not just the leader.

What I found totally fascinating about the race was the major shake-up concerning a lot of guys in the top ten.  Now I'm not buying in the Chase crap; however, engine failures and wrecks for B. Labonte, Harvick, Stewart, and Busch, plus the deal with Earnhardt's injury/substitute driver thing, and then Newman's bad run sure shook up things a lot.  Rather than being totally out of it, Mayfield is only 40 points behind 10th place now, Kahne only 69 points, and Martin 89 (I think).  I found that kind of heartening that at least some of them are old guys who deserve a chance to compete for the championship.  

As someone on Victory Lane, I think, pointed out last night, NOW all the guys in the top 8 in points at least have all won races this year (with Bobby and Harvick dropping to 9th and 10th).  I found that kind of interesting.  They could both potentially drop out of the top 10 after this week and if Martin moved up, he's at least won a race this season (Rusty too, but he's probably too far back).  I mean wasn't all this "new" system suppose to reward race wins more?  Instead we get guys in the top 10 "stroking" even more than in the past.

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: Vivian on August 02, 2004, 04:32:10 PM
On most interviews the drivers say they are racing different drivers now rather than worrying about the top one in points.  Does this mean they are accepting and liking the new system? Is it gonna work?  

Sorry, Cheryl, but personally I don't think Mark's attitude is that great so if he does not make the top 10 that will be okay in my book.  Plus he was the only driver who never congratualated Tony that year so that is another strike against him, in my book.  Remember this is just my opinion.  

Beth, considering Jeff was having those problems with that broken chain when he would pit, he did do a lot passing which does go to show that there are some good drivers out there.  I was especially impressed with Terry Labonte's run also.  He had a great finish for one who a lot of people think is ready for retirement.  Don't you think so?  Anyone else think so?


Title: Pocono
Post by: BAM24/25 on August 02, 2004, 05:03:34 PM
Yes Viv I was glad to see Terry have a good run.  All of the Hendrick teams were in the top 15.   And given Jeff's problems in the pits a top five was good.  

Cheryl I think the lack of passing in the final 40 laps was a fuel mileage issue.  Everyone was close on fuel so they were not racing hard.  Pocono usually comes down to fuel mileage and that is why it is not one of my favorite tracks.  Shorten the race and I think it would be better racing.


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 02, 2004, 05:47:15 PM
Quote from: "BAM24/25"
Cheryl I think the lack of passing in the final 40 laps was a fuel mileage issue.  Everyone was close on fuel so they were not racing hard.  Pocono usually comes down to fuel mileage and that is why it is not one of my favorite tracks.  Shorten the race and I think it would be better racing.


Fuel mileage????  MRN never mentioned a word about that.  I think TV tries to create their "drama" about that whenever it's a strung-out race.  

On shortening the race, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!  The length of the race makes no difference.  We always see gas mileage issues at Michigan and it's always been 400 miles and Indianapolis as well.  

I'm totally against shortening any race distances!  Fans attending in person deserve 500 miles for what they pay for tickets.  And, to me, the Pocono races don't seem long at all.  But then, I'm one who likes to see the challenges turning the high RPMs for all those miles places on the engines.  Yesterday is a perfect example of why I love Pocono.  You saw which teams had their act together in the engine department and which didn't.   Just like I love the Coke 600 for the same reasons.

I was happy to see Terry get another good finish too.  It did seem like the top ten were mostly made up of Hendrick and Roush cars all day long.  So obviously those teams had their acts together, at least in the durability area yesterday.

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: old hot rodder on August 02, 2004, 05:54:36 PM
Cheryl- glad to here that you were in the Buckeye state.
Vivian, you must have seen a different interview of Mark than I did. I thought his attitude was great. He said that having a good car and a good finish made him feel wonderful, like he was 20 not 45. Mentioned how he loves his crew.
 Of course, I'm a Mark Martin fan, (and def not a Hendricks fan), so maybe that colors my viewpoint. Just don't see how you could dislike Mark.
 And yes, I think its time for T Lab, who has to be one of the classiest guys in racing, to hang it up.
 Other than that, Vivian, we completely agree! :lol:


Title: Pocono
Post by: Vivian on August 02, 2004, 08:32:07 PM
They did talk about fuel mileage on tv.  Even had audio of Mark's crew chief telling him to conserve.  Guess they were close until the next to last caution came out.  Some could make it, some close and some couldn't.  But the way the day was going, I was sure there would be more cautions and fuel would not play a part in this one.  

Now, Dick - just because his attitude was okay at that time does not mean it is always good.  It seems to come across to me that he is negative a lot of the time and for some reason that stays in my mind.  But that does not mean I don't think his fans have a good attitude so hang in there, man.   :twisted:   Now we can agree.  BTW, I have noticed from your posts that most of the time we really do agree.  That's good.  8)


Title: Pocono
Post by: old hot rodder on August 02, 2004, 08:53:11 PM
Oh oh, keeping track of me are you? :D  Lord knows I can use all the help I can get.
  My take on T LaBonte is simple. He has been hurt before. For whatever he gets out of racing now, it can't be more important than quitting while he is still on top, and not risking a serious injury. He really doesn't have anything more to prove, in my opinion. I would be just as upset if he got hurt as I would Mark or Jeff B or any of my other favorites.
 See ya,  Dick


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 03, 2004, 04:11:44 PM
i'd like to know why people don't like racing at pocono. i'd like some reasons why because i constantly hear people on this forum and others say they think pocono is boring and i think pocono is exciting and a difficult track to drive.so why?


Title: Pocono
Post by: old hot rodder on August 03, 2004, 05:11:50 PM
Ron, if 3 of my favorite drivers were not running in the top 10, I would have turned it off. What is exciting about seeing the cars run around single file, with almost no passing in the top 10 or 15 cars??
 I really feel the same way about the Brickyard.
 Watch a tape of the truck race at MIS and see if you can tell what I mean.
Take care.


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 03, 2004, 06:03:58 PM
if that's the case blame the racing conditions nascar has set up for pocono not the race track itself. if you examine the racing at pocono over the last 25 yrs you'll see that the racing there has always been very competive .it's only been within the last 3 to 4 yrs that  it's become so-called boring. blame nascar and not the track  or the network.


Title: Pocono
Post by: sally on August 03, 2004, 06:07:24 PM
What Ron said.  Also, there are too many of these flat tracks in this part of the season...Chicago, Indy, Pocono, NH.  As Jeff Gordon pointed out during Pit Bull Sat. nite, to have good racing for stock cars, you need BANKING!.  I think the reason Pocono "suffers" in the eyes of many fans Ithat would include me) is because there are so many races on similar tracks lumped in this part of the season, and they go back after only 6 weeks.  Too bad they couldn't shoehorn Darlington in when the weather is good!
Sally


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 03, 2004, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: "sally"
What Ron said.  Also, there are too many of these flat tracks in this part of the season...Chicago, Indy, Pocono, NH.  As Jeff Gordon pointed out during Pit Bull Sat. nite, to have good racing for stock cars, you need BANKING!.  I think the reason Pocono "suffers" in the eyes of many fans Ithat would include me) is because there are so many races on similar tracks lumped in this part of the season, and they go back after only 6 weeks.  Too bad they couldn't shoehorn Darlington in when the weather is good!

Sally


Well I certainly agree that the mid-summer is the most boring part of the NASCAR season, but I still think Pocono provides the best racing of all the tracks you've mentioned. I just think you can't judge "passing" at Pocono by the top 10 since that is probably all TV showed all day long.  Either MRN was lying or there was a lot of passing throughout the pack all day long.  I guess I look at the race as a whole, not just the end though where a lot of them get strung out.  I always find Pocono entertaining.  I can't say the same about Indy.  I know I'm certainly looking forward to the truck and Busch races at IRP more; however, there are so many whackers in them, I'm sure that the regulars in those series have no chance.   And we get two Waltrips for the price of one Friday night.  :cry:

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 03, 2004, 08:04:20 PM
good point cheryl i have listen to pocono races on mrn and tv  and i have noticed that mrn covers more racing throughout the pack  and tv doesn't . makes one wonder if more fans should listen to racing on the radio. i wish i could i like listening to races on mrn but i can't get it


Title: Pocono
Post by: Desmond on August 03, 2004, 08:11:38 PM
I think that the local affiliate for MRN in New York City is AM 620, Sporting News Radio.  Try that next week.


Title: Pocono
Post by: old hot rodder on August 03, 2004, 08:18:11 PM
Ron, mea culpa. I agree that the cause is not necessarily the track. Yes, there is more racing for position toward the rear of the pack, and probably TV does not do it justice. Darned if I will pay the prevailing ticket prices to watch the back of the pack. Phooey. I slept during about the middle 100 laps Sunday.
 What did I see during the last 50 laps? One pass in the top 5 that I can remember. Kasey passed Biffle for 3rd.
 Were it not for the cautions, JJ would have won with ahalf lap lead. So what should have held my interest?
 Yes, I think Nascar has some serious problems that the chase for the champ crap isn't going to solve, but no offense to Pocono nor to Pa. intended.


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 03, 2004, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: "old hot rodder"
Yes, I think Nascar has some serious problems that the chase for the champ crap isn't going to solve, but no offense to Pocono nor to Pa. intended.


Now, Dick.  Just cause I like Pocono and a lot of others don't, doesn't mean you have to worry about "bashing" it.   :) Trust me, I don't have any "home" track to defend.  I guess that's the advantage to living in a state without any paved ovals. The only advantage...

As to the serious problems in NASCAR, you and I can certainly agree on that one!

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: Vivian on August 03, 2004, 08:58:51 PM
The race itself looks boring to us home fans because tv seems to only show the top 5 or 10 normally.  By following the ticker at the top which I did constantly Sunday due to the fact I was writing the review, I noticed that they not only did not tell us who was out of the race when; but I also noticed they did not tell us about all the in pack passing and changes. I hate to depend on the ticker, but it tells more of a story than the announcers sometimes.  Also, I think that because it is a different shape that more work goes into the set up and it is challenging to not only the drivers but to the whole pit crew.  Even though the leader runs away, there are some other things we could rate it by.  I can't say I hate it, but I can't say I like it either.  Oh, one thing I don't like is that they get 2 races a year and they are close to each other while some of the better racing race tracks don't have but one.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.   :wink:


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 03, 2004, 09:45:46 PM
that's a no go desmond that station has stop carrying mrn radio in 2003.


Title: Pocono
Post by: old hot rodder on August 03, 2004, 10:37:37 PM
I don't have a home track either, Cheryl, although I would love to see Nascar run at Mid Ohio.
I think the most bored I have been at a race was the first F1 race at Indy, followed closely by the IRL race at Kentucky last year. I was happy that Sam Hornish won, but there was precious little racing action.
Where's Lou, any how?? We need some of his humor. :D


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 04, 2004, 12:27:16 PM
Quote from: "old hot rodder"
I don't have a home track either, Cheryl, although I would love to see Nascar run at Mid Ohio.
I think the most bored I have been at a race was the first F1 race at Indy, followed closely by the IRL race at Kentucky last year. I was happy that Sam Hornish won, but there was precious little racing action.
Where's Lou, any how?? We need some of his humor. :D


Yes, but you do have Mansfield and Kilkare Speedways, which are great short tracks.  All IRL races are boring to me.   :wink:
Lou is here, but busy with regular work and his usar site, but I'll tell him his "public" is clammoring for him.   :lol:

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 04, 2004, 04:48:00 PM
why are all irl races boring to you cheryl? i think you should give them another chance and you would see that it is just as exciting as nascar now.


Title: Pocono
Post by: BAM24/25 on August 04, 2004, 04:59:34 PM
Being at a race and having the opportunity to watch all the racing on the track and not just what the TV wants you to see always makes the race more interesting.  I know people say California and Phoenix are boring but I go to those races and have a different opinion.  Unfortunately TV is only interested in what is going on "up front"


Title: Pocono
Post by: Vivian on August 04, 2004, 05:07:44 PM
Once I got into the personality of some of the drivers and knew who they were, I kind of liked watching IRL.  But then I like all racing as long as there is competition.  I just love Helio and his happy attitude and face and all the voice inflections he uses.  If no stock car racing is on then I will watch open wheel.


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 04, 2004, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: "ronbarnes77"
why are all irl races boring to you cheryl? i think you should give them another chance and you would see that it is just as exciting as nascar now.


Because I absolutely cannot relate to the "cars!"  I am savvy enough to know that the stock cars aren't anything like our street vehicles anymore, but at least they still look like cars.  Open-wheelers don't to me.  They're more like rocket-ships than cars in my opinion.

Second, there is so little sheet metal on them, it's difficult to tell them apart during a race.

Third, you don't see them race "wheel to wheel" very often.  Granted, we don't see that in NASCAR lately, but it's more likely than in open wheel cars.  They're just too delicate for that to happen without a big wreck.

Lastly, I can't relate to the drivers at all.  They have always come across as prima donas to me, whereas, stock car drivers seem more from a working class background (even if they aren't from the south).  Other than Kulwicki, Newman is the first driver in a long time that has a college degree.  I'm not saying open wheelers are all college grads, but they come across that way to me.  

Cheryl "although I do like to hear Daaaareeeeo Franchitti talk"  :lol:


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 04, 2004, 06:24:43 PM
i understand cheryl about your first two reasons but no 3  is just not right. irl cars race wheel to wheel  at chicago,michigan.texas and  california.next yr they will head to the road courses fo the first time.second  if you take the time to get to know the drivers  you can find differences in the collors of the cars lol :o  :D


Title: Pocono
Post by: sally on August 04, 2004, 06:36:44 PM
I'm with Cheryl here.  The cars are just planes without wings, it's impossible to tell which car is which unless the announcers tell me, and, well...I just don't care who wins!   I can watch F1 to see if the impossible will happen and Schumacher will lose (unlikely), but the Indy cars just don't matter to me.  Many of the drivers seem personable enough, but  18 cars (or 20) going 300 miles (or less) in cars that crumple if you look at them cross-eyed just doesn't hold my attention.  

I know the interest in the Brickyard 400 originally happened because they had never allowed anything but Indy cars to race on that track.  10 years ago it was a big deal, just because the elitist open wheel racers would ALLOW stock cars to put rubber on their sacred ground.  (Coincidentally, about the same time that Indy and Cart split up).  Now it's just another flat track race where aerodynamics, not driver skill, make for another high priced parade.  At least, that's how it hits me.
Sally


Title: Pocono
Post by: old hot rodder on August 04, 2004, 06:39:59 PM
Ron has a point, Cheryl. The Kentucky IRL race in 2002 had a very close 3 way finish as I recall. That made the 03 race even more disappointing to me.
I agree with your point about the Drivers...


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 04, 2004, 07:25:12 PM
Quote from: "ronbarnes77"
i understand cheryl about your first two reasons but no 3  is just not right. irl cars race wheel to wheel  at chicago,michigan.texas and  california.next yr they will head to the road courses fo the first time.second  if you take the time to get to know the drivers  you can find differences in the collors of the cars lol :o  :D


I understand the finishes in the IRL have been closer in the last few years.  I guess when I say "wheel to wheel", I really mean, bumper to fender or quarter panel.  I don't like drivers putting people the wall, but a little bit of side-to-side bumping is interesting.  You can't do that in open-wheel cars cause they don't have fenders!   :wink:

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 04, 2004, 07:39:07 PM
i guess we can agree to disagree.i will say this i do believe that irl will match nascar by by 2010.


Title: Pocono
Post by: Cheryl on August 04, 2004, 07:50:41 PM
Quote from: "ronbarnes77"
i guess we can agree to disagree.i will say this i do believe that irl will match nascar by by 2010.


Yes, I've agreed to disagree with a ton of open wheel fans over the years.   :wink:

On IRL matching NASCAR, unfortunately you are probably right, but mostly because competition in NASCAR just keeps going downhill.

Cheryl


Title: Pocono
Post by: Lou on August 09, 2004, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: "Cheryl"
Yes, I've agreed to disagree with a ton of open wheel fans over the years.

Over the years I've agreed to disagree with Cheryl also.

1.) I find the IRL racing to be very exciting to watch.
2.) Despite my declining vision due to squinting at porno pictures on the net all day, I can tell the differences in most of the cars and sponsors.
3.) I don't want or expect these cars to bump
4.) Dario is not cute. His wife is.
5.) The very first cars ever built by Henry J were open wheeled :-)
6.) It's not that I can't relate to the drivers, it's that I can't UNDERSTAND them!

There is one thing I don't understand about the series. How can anybody say "wickerbill" without laughing? ;-)

Ron, IRL will match NASCAR by 2010? In what way? The ability to take a good thing and mess it up?

Lou "don't worry, I won't stay long..."


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 09, 2004, 03:53:14 PM
lou they'll match in two ways.1 the quality of the racing will continue to improve to the point where i predict that several nascar drivers will go back to irl.2 the war between the series will be over by then and this improve the irl too.


Title: Pocono
Post by: Lou on August 09, 2004, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: "ronbarnes77"
lou they'll match in two ways.1 the quality of the racing will continue to improve to the point where i predict that several nascar drivers will go back to irl.2 the war between the series will be over by then and this improve the irl too.

Hmmm, very interesting view of the future. :shock:

I think that unless more American drivers start to run the IRL/CART series, that those series will not grow enough to meet your predictions.

Lou


Title: Pocono
Post by: ronbarnes77 on August 10, 2004, 03:50:28 PM
i have to agree on at least one point they do need more american drivers but that can come the end of the war.