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General Discussions => Race Talk => Topic started by: 17RoushFan on July 11, 2004, 10:07:34 PM



Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: 17RoushFan on July 11, 2004, 10:07:34 PM
Whoa! Stewart & Kahne's crews are in a fight. Man, Stewart continues to get in the news!


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: sally on July 12, 2004, 12:48:29 AM
Won't it be interesting to see what, if anything Nascar does now that
Ray Evernham is the one raising...sorry, I can't help myself...Kahne.
 :wink: Sally


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Vivian on July 12, 2004, 02:33:54 AM
I sure got an earful at home.  Finally had to tell Don to shut up about the whole deal and to remember this was a totally separate incident than the others Tony had been in.  Now for my feelings about it and I think I am being objective.  Looks like Tony had a run and when he came down into line it happened that Kasey was lifting and Tony barely touched him.  There were no big dents in Tony's bumper.  As far as Ray, I think he may re-evaluate once he studies the tape and hears Kasey say he was loose at that time and ready to shift.  Wally explained it well, imo.
I definitely want to hear everyone else's thoughts on the incident.  If all of you think it was deliberate and intentional, then I will re-think my opinion.

Fines only for the crew chiefs, none for Tony is what I think Nascar will do.


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Cheryl on July 12, 2004, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: "Vivian"
I sure got an earful at home.  Finally had to tell Don to shut up about the whole deal and to remember this was a totally separate incident than the others Tony had been in.  Now for my feelings about it and I think I am being objective.  Looks like Tony had a run and when he came down into line it happened that Kasey was lifting and Tony barely touched him.  


I'm sorry, Vivian, I have to disagree.  I think this just shows more of the same impatience that Tony has shown all year long.  Kahne was the leader and you have to respect the leader, whether you have a "run" going or not.  It's not like its the first time we've seen someone up front with only two tires or no new tires.  Yet other drivers with four tires and a good car manage to avoid running into them and taking out a bunch of other cars in the process.  

I have to agree with the guys on that program last week on PRN, I think NASCAR is too afraid of Home Depot and Gibbs to properly penalize Tony.  Instead he gets to sit in Victory Lane while Kahne, Jeff Burton, and others sat in the garage with torn up race cars.  

I can only compare this to the officiating I've seen at USAR races this year.  It doesn't matter even if it's a former champion who wrecks someone (accident or not), he gets placed at the end of the longest line.  Funny how that can be done so easily in a smaller series, yet in the "top" stock car series,  there are too many political considerations...As NBC said just before this happened, NASCAR has a serious credibility problem.

Cheryl


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: ronbarnes77 on July 12, 2004, 03:03:37 PM
don't agree that it's totally stewart's fault.it looked to me like the 9 miss a shift and tony ran into the back of him.did you guys read about everham threat?


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: BAM24/25 on July 12, 2004, 04:06:54 PM
I also don't see it quite as clear cut as some.  Kasey looked like he got loose and Tony ran into the back of him, but I also think Tony could have backed off.  He didn't and just kept going.  Tony's problem is his history.  When someone does things intentionally so many times that the one time it may be unintentional nobody believes him.


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Vivian on July 12, 2004, 05:12:46 PM
We have some good varying views here.  That is great.  Come on, Everyone, jump in.  Any other views?  Was it a racing deal?  Could Tony have backed off more and sooner?  I have this "need" to really know.


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Lou on July 12, 2004, 07:14:57 PM
Quote from: "Vivian"
We have some good varying views here.  That is great.  Come on, Everyone, jump in.  Any other views?  Was it a racing deal?  Could Tony have backed off more and sooner?  I have this "need" to really know.

I certainly do NOT think it was intentional. I think it was indeed a "racing deal". That being said, I also think that Tony Stewart is supposed to be one of the elite, top, professional drivers in the world and should have had a better sense for the speed differential and closing rate going into turn 1. Yes, it all happened so fast and maybe he did not have time to get his foot on the brake pedal, but he is expected to based on his skill level. At the rate of speed at which he passed Sterling on the outside on the restart he should have know that he was going to be closing in on Kahne's bumper real quick-like....

It did not look to me like Kahne bobbled or slowed or missed a shift or anything except maintain the speed at which he was traveling.

Had the roles been reversed, the anouncers and fans would have been calling it a "rookie mistake".

Sorry Cheryl. It was a good "no call".  Am I grounded now?  :wink:

Lou


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Cheryl on July 12, 2004, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: "Lou"
Quote from: "Vivian"
Sorry Cheryl. It was a good "no call".  Am I grounded now?  :wink:


I think you're becoming the official Tony Stewart apologist around our house, dear.  If I said he was an angel, you'd decide he was the devil.   :wink:

I do agree that he didn't do it on purpose, but as you said he should've known the closing rate if he is as good as everyone always claims.  I think that is what bugs me so much.  If a rookie had done it, I would've still thought they were being impatient; however, you can excuse that more with a rookie rather than with a former champion and someone who's been restarting stock cars for how many years now?

I just think if you compare what he did to what Jason Leffler lost 11 positons for last week for running hard on the next to the last lap of the race, there seems to be a lot of disparate treatment.  Not that I am surprised since that seems to be NASCAR's MO lately.

Cheryl


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: sally on July 12, 2004, 08:15:35 PM
I agree, Cheryl.  If you penalize one driver for an incident, you have to penalize them all the same.    If they penalize Leffler, they have to penalize Stewart.  As you say, he IS one of bestdrivers out there.  Or so they keep telling us, right?
Sally :?


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Lou on July 12, 2004, 08:30:03 PM
Quote from: "Cheryl"
I just think if you compare what he did to what Jason Leffler lost 11 positons for last week for running hard on the next to the last lap of the race, there seems to be a lot of disparate treatment.

You're not exactly comparing apples to apples. Leffler had 2 incidents within the span of 2 turns and a backstretch. I do not believe that NASCAR specified if he was being penalized for one or both, and if it were for just one, then which one? Did anyone hear their reasoning? I suspect he was penalized for the second incident, blocking, because NASCAR had already put teams on notice that they were not going to tolerate blocking.

We'll never really know, but I think that if he had not commited the second boo-boo, Leffler would not have received any penalty. I think NASCAR would have not been happy with the first incident but still would have probably chalked it up to the dreaded "racing incident". The second one could be considered an "aggravating circumstance" - in more ways than one :-)

So there... :mrgreen:

Lou


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: old hot rodder on July 12, 2004, 08:32:56 PM
I'm pretty much with Lou on this one. However, to expect Tony to have time to "back off", I think is a bit silly, considering the speed at which this stuff is happening. Even though Tony is one of the best,  I think his fault was in passing Sturlin' and squeezing in at that point anyhow. Things were too tight for that kind of move, as the results demonstrated.
  As good as these guys are, there are still some limits.  
Dick


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: sally on July 12, 2004, 08:52:32 PM
Lou, I heard an interview with Jason Leffler before the Busch race Sat, and he said Nascar told him the penalty was for the 2 incidents in half a lap.
Sally


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Vivian on July 12, 2004, 09:33:49 PM
Dick, Don said practically the same thing you did.

I found this article on Jayski  http://sports.yahoo.com;nascar/news;ylc=X30DMTBqZ2Y4MzhzBF9T
and thought it was a good way of looking at it.

Lou, your opinion was good and I don't think you can compare Lefler's to Stewart's.  Lefler went up to block Jr and he was blatent about just running into Mikey whereas Tony did squeeze in a spot that maybe he should not have but then, Kasey did say he couldn't get going on restarts all day.  So where is the line?  None, it's just Tony & his rep.   :?


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Smallblock bored on July 13, 2004, 04:08:00 AM
Well to be honest there are a few points that nobody has had the pleasure of hitting on. First foo these cars are way to dependent on the front down force to turn in the corners. By the same account the spoiler plays too much into the fact of "pressing the ass end" Look to Rusty Wallace and Sterling Marlin for the true answers. If that does not satisfy you then look to the past. These heaps depend way too much on body lines for the traction when going around the track. Sterling said it best a year and a half ago when he said "YOU JUST TOUCH THESE THINGS AND AROUND YOU GO" Jeff Green and Kane were victims of semi flat tracks and the new age areo cars. Wait till "the car of the future appears". We will all be sick of this sport pretty quick. (the true veterans I mean)


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Cheryl on July 13, 2004, 01:11:26 PM
Last night when I got home, I listened to the NASCAR station on XM for quite a while.  Their reporter had excerpts from several interviews during and after the race on Sunday, all involving the Stewart incident.  One thing I found interesting was one she had with J.D. Gibbs, who is running Joe Gibbs Racing now.  She asked him if Tony would be more under control if his father was there instead of doing football.  J.D. laughed and said in no uncertain terms that his father couldn't control Tony either!   :lol:  

I guess I was happy to hear this because everyone keeps saying that Tony wouldn't be acting this way if Joe was around.  Now I'm not a particular fan of the Redskins or Joe Gibbs (never have been even though the team is based not far from where we live), so I never thought his absence or presence had anything to do with this increase in incidents involving Stewart.  Glad to hear his son affirm what I thought was true.  

They also had tape of the entire comments made by Ray Evernham during the race.  I've never heard Ray so angy (okay maybe that one time he called Gary Nelson some bad names on the scanner at Dover a few years ago).  But he was pretty condeming of NASCAR for not taking more action against Tony last week.  Quite interesting...

When she talked to Jimmy Johnson, he said he saw Tony go flying by on the outside on that restart and he knew something was going to happen, so he backed off.  Good call, Jimmy!  

Since for once I wanted to hear all the quotes from everyone I also watched Totally NASCAR last night.  On there, Larry Mac commented that if he learned one thing last weekend that probation by NASCAR meant absolutely nothing!  Way to go, Larry!

Also last night on Inside Winston Cup, it sure sounded like the boys sure thought Tony needed to use more patience.  

Cheryl


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: ronbarnes77 on July 14, 2004, 02:27:51 PM
i can't believe only tommy baldwin was fined for this.nascar used the LAME excuse that he shouldn't been in stewart's pit.that just won't fly with me.stewart's crew chief should have also been fined for starting the fight.


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Desmond on July 14, 2004, 04:47:15 PM
I would love to know whether NBC has tape of the incident from the very beginning.  We would then find out whether anyone really threw punches, or, as Baldwin claims, someone simply slipped.

Also, I agree with NASCAR that it was an accident.  Maybe a misjudgement, but definitely an accident.


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Cheryl on July 14, 2004, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: "Desmond"
I would love to know whether NBC has tape of the incident from the very beginning.  We would then find out whether anyone really threw punches, or, as Baldwin claims, someone simply slipped.

Also, I agree with NASCAR that it was an accident.  Maybe a misjudgement, but definitely an accident.


I suspect if that had gotten it all on camera, we'd have seen it.  Kinda like the giant orange deal.  But I did finally get to see that on 24/7 on Monday night, but not until the safety vehicles were chasing it around and finally got it corralled.   :lol:

Cheryl


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: ronbarnes77 on July 14, 2004, 06:32:38 PM
good point desmond when nbc picks up the fight it's at the end.


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: sally on July 14, 2004, 11:51:58 PM
I heard it was basically a shoving match.  All the tires laid out are what tripped everyone up.  Probably saved someone from actually throwing punches!


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: Vivian on July 15, 2004, 12:56:04 AM
They probably did trip on the tires or there would have been more fines, I think.  There were at least 2 officials on the ground with them.

BTW, I read this article on a link from Jayski and it pretty much says what I would have liked to have said.
http://www.catchfence.com/html/2004/bm071404.html
He pretty much summed up what a lot of us think.  And Jeff Hammond on a show pretty much said the same thing.  Can't remember the show, but Don said Tony must be paying Jeff, ha ha.  :lol:


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: marrtinigirl on July 15, 2004, 03:43:37 AM
I know I am coming in on this late, but touching on Cheryl's questions about whether this would be happening if Joe Gibbs were around...

Wasn't big Joe in charge when Tony was smacking reporters and parking his IROC piece of @$#% and shoving fans?  Didn't Tony get into a shoving match with Robby Gordon under the "control" of Joe?

I think that what started on the sidelines and in the garage area has just boiled over onto the track, and it doesn't really matter who is in charge, Tony is under no one's "control."


Title: Stewart/Kahne
Post by: ronbarnes77 on July 15, 2004, 03:14:21 PM
i don't think that having joe gibbs around would keep tony from doing whatever he wants to do.