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General Discussions => TV Talk => Topic started by: Desmond on July 20, 2006, 06:34:00 PM



Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Desmond on July 20, 2006, 06:34:00 PM
For those of you who wanted to see the split-screen commercials that are part of the ABC/ESPN IndyCar telecasts when those networks begin showing NASCAR races next year, here is some bad news:

http://www.longislandpress.com/?cp=93&show=article&a_id=9152 (http://www.longislandpress.com/?cp=93&show=article&a_id=9152)


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 20, 2006, 07:20:35 PM
Big surprise...it's NASCAR that has vetoed the idea, NOT the networks, or the sponsors.  I loved that the article pointed out that side by side might interfere with the sale of the Track Pass coverage....Hmmmm.

Sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Benson23Fan on July 20, 2006, 07:35:02 PM
I doubt enough advertisers would've agreed to make this a reality anyway.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 20, 2006, 07:50:13 PM
At least that's what Nascar wants us to believe.  Apparently ESPN is more than willing to try to work it out.  Maybe we should let them know how much fans would support such a move...in spote of possible taking business away from Track Pass?

sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Cheryl on July 20, 2006, 08:02:36 PM
I cannot believe NASCAR thinks we'll buy comments like this:

From Jayski:  "We’ve looked at a lot of options to enhance the fan/viewer experience but feel that a split-screen presentation of ads and racing serves neither the fan nor advertiser,” says Ramsey Poston, NASCAR’s managing director of corporate communications.

Give me a break!  It doesn't SERVE the advertisers and that's the bottom line.  NA$CAR could care less what the fans want.

Then:

“Our TV partners do an excellent job of immediately returning to significant track action when it happens during commercials. With replays and other technology, the networks make sure NASCAR fans get the best, most comprehensive race coverage anywhere.”

BEST, MOST COMPREHENSIVE COVERAGE???  Yeah, showing the top 10 only is sure my definition of "comprehensive..."

And only NBC/TNT break out of commercial if anything significant happens.  Fox couldn't even bother to return immediately for restarts, which the viewers find "significant" but obviously Fox does not.   :evil:

What a bunch of BS if I ever saw it...Talk about "spin"... :smt078

Cheryl


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Benson23Fan on July 20, 2006, 08:35:37 PM
FOX has broken out of commercial on numerous occasions. Most recent being at Talladega earlier this year when the wreck occured early in the race. In fact FOX was the first network to ever break out of commercial for Tony Stewarts wreck in the 2001 Daytona 500.

They've also broken out in 2002 at Darlington for another Stewart wreck. In 2004 at Talladega for the Big one in turn 4. In 2005 twice during the Daytona 500 and then at Las Vegas a few weeks later for a wreck involving Jr and Vickers.

The difference is NBC will break out for just about any spin or wreck while FOX only seems to do it when multiple cars are involved or it is drastically race altering.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: drpep (brian) on July 20, 2006, 10:59:42 PM
Cheryl's post sum up what I would have said.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 21, 2006, 12:36:46 AM
Seven times in 6 years Fox has come out of commercial to show live racing incidents?  Wow.  How can we possibly complain about that/

Sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Benson23Fan on July 21, 2006, 06:34:19 AM
You like the accidents or something? What's the point of totally screwing up your commercial load and placement to show the last half of a back marker spinning of no consequence? It's remarkable that they even break out of commercial at all considering this was totally unheard of before 2001. Big one or not commercials were never interupted and I'm sure the thought of doing so never crossed anyones mind.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 21, 2006, 11:46:29 AM
No, I don't like accidents.  I just don't expect to have to watch 50% of the race on tape replay.  If they're going to do that, they might just a well use tape delay....then TV and Nascar could REALLY pick and choose what they decide to show.

sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Cheryl on July 22, 2006, 01:08:16 AM
Quote from: "Benson23Fan"
What's the point of totally screwing up your commercial load and placement to show the last half of a back marker spinning of no consequence?


Uh, first off, I don't have a commercial load... ;)

Second as a Johnny B. fan, even thought he was often a backmarker (by today's TV standards), wouldn't you want them to break out of commercial to show anything significant involving him?  I know I would.  

Cheryl


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Benson23Fan on July 22, 2006, 01:47:44 AM
Not unless he was involved in the big one or wrecked the leader. If they broke out for everything significant that happened to any driver they'd never complete break.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 22, 2006, 12:05:34 PM
They would never complete a break.  And the down side of that is.....Oh.  It would be just like attending a race live!  You would be able to see evereything that happened on the track as it happens with side by side.  Bummer.

Sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Benson23Fan on July 22, 2006, 02:10:46 PM
Well obviously there would be no downside for the race fan at home but thinking practically it's not very realistic. Commercial breaks are the result of the networks paying so much money for the rights. They're all going to happen regardless and restarts will be missed by both networks, infact TNT missed 2 last week. Wait until Bristol, Martinsville and Richmond when nearly every restart will be missed.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Cheryl on July 22, 2006, 09:55:05 PM
Quote from: "Benson23Fan"
Commercial breaks are the result of the networks paying so much money for the rights.


I guess as a viewer, I still have no sympathy for this...


Quote from: "Benson23Fan"
Wait until Bristol, Martinsville and Richmond when nearly every restart will be missed.


So I guess I'll be listening to the restarts on MRN/PRN as I am today during this sorry excuse for coverage of the Busch race!  It's just a crime to even claim they're covering this race.  I lost count of the missed restarts after about 4.  

Cheryl


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 22, 2006, 11:34:25 PM
How about taking that 45 minutes of 'pre race coverage' and front loading it with commercials?  I'd watch just as many of them as I do now, and they could reach their 'commercial quota' without taking away from track time.  I would be a lot more inclined to use the product of a company that showed that much consideration of racing and it's fans.

Sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Benson23Fan on July 23, 2006, 01:44:26 AM
The reason they do pre race shows is actually to help spread the commercial count out more. However most of the advertisers demand a certain amount of time during the race as well.


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Cheryl on July 24, 2006, 01:28:32 PM
I cut and pasted this article by David Poole from the Charlotte Observer because I think you have to be registered on their site to read it.  He has some interesting observations and tried to get some clarification from the NA$CAR talking head on his side-by-side comments.   I'm not saying I agree with all of this, but Poole makes some interesting points.  I especially agree with his comments about how fans can never get enough of their favorite drivers and conversely think all other drivers are covered too much.   :)

Cheryl

"Life in the Turn Lane
Some thoughts and observations as the cars whiz by
Friday, July 21, 2006, David Poole
Viewers have every right to demand more, but only so much is going to happen
I found myself listening to the guys on XM Radio's NASCAR channel Thursday night when they were talking about the "side by side" deal ESPN and ABC use on their IndyCar Series telecasts.
Specifically, they were addressing a story in the Long Island (N.Y.) Press about whether the format, in which commercials share the screen with a video image of what's happening on the track, might ever be used in NASCAR telecasts when ABC/ESPN resumes broadcasting stock-car events next year.
The specific sticking point was a quote from NASCAR managing director of corporate communications Ramsey Poston.
"We've looked at a lot of options to enhance the fan/viewer experience but feel that a split-screen presentation of ads and racing serves neither the fan nor advertiser," Poston said.
This comment, of course, was drawing hoots from fans and the hosts of the show alike. Fans' interests would certainly served by splitting the screen, as they would if race telecasts had no commercials at all.
Normally, it wouldn't bother me a bit to let Poston twist in the wind a little on this one. It's not that I don't like him, but he and I sometimes find ourselves with competing interests as he and I both try to do our jobs.
But I can't do it in this case. Poston didn't choose his words well. When I talked to him on the phone on Friday he said he realized after reading his comments he came off sounding like he was trying to speak for the fans more than he'd intended to do.
In clarifying his position, Poston said that NASCAR has looked at what ABC/ESPN does with the split screen and doesn't think that it does justice either to the race coverage or to advertisers.
And he's right.
You're hearing the commercial sound, and the only thing that can be said for the small view of the race is that it's better than nothing. But only barely.
Advertisers, meanwhile, are paying far more for commercial time on NASCAR races than they are on IRL broadcasts. NASCAR has a big-time TV deal, while the IRL basically sells the Indianapolis 500 to ABC and throws the rest of its series in with the deal.
It also should be pointed out that "side-by-side" certainly hasn't been a television ratings bonanza for the IRL, either. If an advertiser buys a full-page ad in The Charlotte Observer, he gets a full page. If an advertiser pays the going rate for a spot on a NASCAR telecast, that company ought to get what it's paying for as well.
It might be a more popular view to say otherwise, but it'd be hypocritical. I don't blame NASCAR fans for wanting to see races without commercials. I don't blame fans for complaining when restarts are missed or commercials get backed up and the coverage of races gets choppy.
I frequently get e-mails from fans who've timed commercials or written down how many laps of racing they see in a certain period of a telecast. I tell them time and time again that the commercial load in a NASCAR telecast isn't significantly larger than what you see in a night of prime-time shows.
Those shows have natural breaks, but NASCAR races do not. Commercials just seem more intrusive in the race broadcasts.
I heard Ken Schanzer of NBC Sports say once that NASCAR is the "best covered" sport on television because of all the places the networks can take cameras. I think he's absolutely right.
If something happens on a commercial, it's quickly replayed from 12 different angles. Fans don't miss much, if anything.
Fans want more than they'll ever get because that's natural. They never want to miss a pass or a pit stop or a restart. They always want to see 15 or 20 drivers interviewed in the postrace, and sometimes time simply doesn't allow that.
A fan's favorite driver can never be shown enough and the driver he hates most is always going to be shown too much.
That's how fans are. There are some fans out there who would be willing to pay to watch races commercial free, but not enough of them to make that a viable commercial entity.
So as long as advertisers are paying the bills - and they're very, very big bills - commercials are going to be part of NASCAR telecasts."


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Desmond on July 24, 2006, 05:05:07 PM
Quote from: "Cheryl"
So I guess I'll be listening to the restarts on MRN/PRN as I am today during this sorry excuse for coverage of the Busch race!  It's just a crime to even claim they're covering this race.  I lost count of the missed restarts after about 4.


I noticed all those missed restarts, too.  In fact, after each commercial break, I expected Bozo the Clown to come back and say, "Hey kiddies, guess what?  The caution flag has waved again!  Here's what happened..."  or, alternately, "Hey, folks, the race has started again!  It should be fun!" :lol:

The TV presentation was as boring as I have ever seen it. :x


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Vivian on July 24, 2006, 08:33:15 PM
Being objective is something I take pride in.  Whether it is about my favorite driver, football team, commercials or anything else.

About the commercial breaks, I don't like them but I know they are a necessary evil.  I do think that maybe NBC/TNT  has better placement of commercials and to me most of them are less offensive than the ones on Fox.  I know the announcers do all they can and I have liked the fact that there are not as many as in car shots this half of the season so far.

It all boils down to the fact that that we are just mere fans and not of the corporate world trying to satisfy shareholders or fill our pockets with profit.  In other words, we are small and make not even a pimple on a frog's #*&%**.  So our feelings don't count and we will have to live with what they choose to show us on tv if we want to continue watching.  

JMO


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Cheryl on July 29, 2006, 05:49:42 PM
From Jayski yesterday.  Guess the "mouthpiece" decided to backpedal a bit after realizing how condescending he sounded:

"More on the Split Screen for TV: Ramsey Poston, NASCAR's managing director for corporate communications, touched off strong reaction on internet message board with a quote in the Long Island (N.Y.) Press about NASCAR’s opinion of the "side by side" approach ABC/ESPN uses with commercials on Indy Racing League races. "We've looked at a lot of options to enhance the fan/viewer experience but feel that a split-screen presentation of ads and racing serves neither the fan nor advertiser," Poston told the newspaper. On Friday [July 21st], Poston said he didn't mean for his comment to come off as though he was speaking for the fans. "We are open to it, if there is a better way of presenting it," he said. “But we haven't seen an idea that we think would work both the advertisers and fans." On its IRL broadcasts, ABC/ESPN present commercials with audio on part of the screen while showing an image from the track, with no sound, on another part. The method has produced no appreciable gain in IRL ratings for ABC/ESPN, however. Advertisers pay considerably higher rates for ads on NASCAR telecasts.(Thatsracin)(7-28-2006)"

It's still all about the sponsors, of course, and the hell with the fans... :evil:

Cheryl


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 29, 2006, 06:03:58 PM
Of course, if it doesn't snag NEW fans, it isn't worth it.  Why should they worry about keeping the EXISTING fans happy?

It's also obvious that this guy has never had to sit through an entire race, trying to make sense of what's happening by watching the 'excellent' broadcast.

Sally


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: Cheryl on July 29, 2006, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: "sally"
Of course, if it doesn't snag NEW fans, it isn't worth it.  Why should they worry about keeping the EXISTING fans happy?


Exactly!  I am listening to the repeat of the evening talk show on XM and the host (Joe Costello) just said the same thing.  He said "they don't care about the viewers they already have; they want something to draw new viewers."  He pointed out that having "side by side" isn't going to draw a new viewer to NASCAR.  So that about sums it up.  As usual, the networks and NA$CAR don't care about the viewers they already have.

Cheryl


Title: No NASCAR "side-by-side"
Post by: sally on July 29, 2006, 09:52:36 PM
Now, give ESPN credit for being willing to consider the side by side.  It's Nascar that won't allow it!

sally