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General Discussions => Race Talk => Topic started by: old hot rodder on April 27, 2004, 05:02:28 PM



Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: old hot rodder on April 27, 2004, 05:02:28 PM
Hello to all. Lou, I'm a bit concerned about your recent post re fan behavior at Talledega. I have a buddy on the Roush board who was there Sunday and said essentially the same thing.
   I hope that what we saw Sunday is not a trend. I've been to Daytona, LAS vegas and Kentucky, as well as to one F-1 race at Indy (boring) and Cart at Mid Ohio ( a whole 'nother deal entirely).
   The contact with other fans has actually been one of the high points for me at these races. I hope this isn't going to change. Having met folks from all over the country, I hope to have this kind of fun for a number of years yet.
   I think I'll skip Dega anyhow. I don't want to see a "big one" in person! :roll:


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Cheryl on April 27, 2004, 06:50:15 PM
Oh, I agree that meeting race fans at the different tracks can be half the fun of going to the races.  And Lou and I have met some wonderful folks at the campground at Talladega in the past.  People we kept in touch with so we could hook up the next year.  

But the last time we went there in 2002, the crowd in the grandstands did get pretty ugly and that's when their man won.   I can't imagine what it was like on Sunday.

Cheryl


Title: Re: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Lou on April 27, 2004, 07:31:15 PM
Quote from: "old hot rodder"
Hello to all. Lou, I'm a bit concerned about your recent post re fan behavior at Talledega. I have a buddy on the Roush board who was there Sunday and said essentially the same thing


OHR, Talladega has always had the reputation of being the wildest place to go racing. The campground is not as bad as it used to be, but the fanbase seems to have gotten MORE out of control every year. Maybe I'm just getting older and more of a curmudgeon (sp?), but the young college frat boy mentality has taken over and they feel like they can do anything they want and get away with it.

I root for Mark Martin and Sterling Marlin, 2 pretty non-controversial drivers, and I started to wear non-denominational clothes and hats to the track for the races. Call it chicken or whatever, but when you're out numbered 100's to 1, the sane approach to take is to be neutral.

Have I been hit by stuff throw from behind me - Yep.  

Have I gotten into arguments with obnoxious fans seated nearby for "insert their drunken reason here" simply because I didn't root for their driver - Yep.

Have I been afraid to drive in or out of the campground with my wife (or any female) in the truck for fear of being stopped and acosted until she exposed herself - Yep.

Have I had to move my camper to a safer place on Sunday after the race because a group of drunks with 4-wheel drives got tired of waiting in traffic and decided to make the campground their playground, endangering many people - Yep.

Have I seen fans set fire to the forest 100 yards from where we were camped and had to guide the fire department in to put it out before disaster happened - Yep.

Have I seen 3 or 4 Barney Fife's trying to police a campground filled with 10,000's - Yep.

Have I met a lot of great people, had some excellent times, enjoyed some good racing - Yep, but not enough to overcome the growing sense of unsafety I felt going there every year.

I'm far from an expert, but having been going to 100's of races at many different tracks, for 15 years - I feel like I have a valid base to compare my Talladega experiences with other places and this stuff happens at other tracks and I feel perfectly comfortable everywhere else we go.

Lou "grump-butt" Lauer


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Cheryl on April 27, 2004, 08:11:18 PM
Here's an article from a newspaper journalist from Macon (Georgia?) who was in the press box Sunday and his opinions on the view of the fans at Talladega.  David Poole was pretty vocal today at thatsracin.com too about what he saw from the press box as well.  This url says horse racing, but it really is about auto racing.   :wink:

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/sports/horse_racing/kentucky_derby/8527747.htm

Cheryl "who wonders what other females Lou has been driving around Talladega with in his truck.     I sure hope it wasn't the "Alabama Chili Queen"   :lol:


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: old hot rodder on April 28, 2004, 03:20:57 PM
Sad, isn't it? I'll scratch Talledega from my list of tracks to go to.


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: sally on May 02, 2004, 12:12:44 PM
Lou, do you think this has anything to do with those "NEW" fans that Nascar is so rabid to attract?  Or is this just something that has been escalating on it's own?
Sally


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Lou on May 03, 2004, 08:07:44 PM
Quote from: "sally"
Lou, do you think this has anything to do with those "NEW" fans that Nascar is so rabid to attract?  Or is this just something that has been escalating on it's own?
Sally


I think it's a combination of both. Many older/veteran fans have stopped coming to the race for a variety of reasons. Maybe it was because Richard Petty stopped racing or DE passed away or prices just got to high. Whatever the reason, it's probably just a natural ebb and flow fo the sport. But the flow of younger fans into the sport has been with the younger generations attitudes of life in general. A little too carefree and disrespectful of others in general (for my taste). That certainly isn't a result of racing, it's a result of life as we know it in general. So the older less-rowdy fan is being replaced with the younger more-rowdy fan. The older rcrowd was once considered the rowdy crowd except that the definition of rowdy has changed from what it once was.

One "signal" to me that things were changing was this - several years ago I started to notice the appearance of the Mardi Gras attitude - complete with the "booby prize" beads. I remarked then that this was a bad sign (in my humble opinion) for the future of a fans experience. It was especially noticable at Talladega and has only increased with every race. Are the beads a problem? Not by themselves, but they always seem to bring out the worst behavior in people for some reason.

Lou "I got my beads at Dover" Lauer


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: sally on May 03, 2004, 09:27:50 PM
Lou, it seems to me that Nascar is reaping what they have sown.  They want the young fans, and they can't seem to figure out how to do that without alienating the "old farts".  I guess they have succeeded in attrracting the crowd they wanted, but now they have to deal with the way the behave in public!  They asked for it, they got it.  Deal.
Sally (they hid the beads when I walked by) :wink:


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: old hot rodder on May 04, 2004, 05:25:09 PM
Folks, I had an interesting chat along these same lines with my youngest daughter (age 27) a few days ago about the infield crowd at the Kentucky Derby. She went to the infield "party" each of her 1st 2 years in college. Against my wishes, I might add.
  She NOW says, "oh Dad, it gets worse there every year. We we not as bad, etc."
   Somehow, each generation seems to think that the subsequent generations exhibit worse behavior. :lol: Where will it all end?
 
Dick, the old "where have all the flowers gone? Idig beads" hippie :lol:


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Cheryl on May 04, 2004, 05:46:20 PM
I know every generation thinks the next is worse, but most of the Generation X types really are pretty bad.  It's like they've been given everything they want by their parents from the time they were born and  many of them don't seem to know the value of a dollar; therefore they value things a lot less.  Or in the case of the people at Talladega, they have no respect for the drivers and trash the track.

Ask Lou how often I marvel at fans who walk out of races early or even before halfway.  This is at places like Charlotte where we pay $112 for tickets.  I guess I'm just still so middle class that I cannot imagine just blowing off that kind of money.  I don't care how bad the traffic is getting out of the track, I'm damn well gonna stay and get every dollar's worth for my hard-earned money!    :twisted:  Then you have the ones who don't even seem to care if there is a race going on and get up 10-12 times to go down to the concession stands cause they're bored (this is at places like Martinsville where there is action all day long).  That really annoys me when I'm having to move every time they want out and can't see what's going on during the race.  They certainly don't seem to care about getting any value for their money.  

Cheryl


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: old hot rodder on May 04, 2004, 05:57:25 PM
I agree, Cheryl. I think this is true at a lot of events, even at my beloved Dayton Dragons baseball games, (classA minor league).
  I'm not a teetotaler by any means, but I think people spend way too much money on beer at about all these events. :(


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Cheryl on May 04, 2004, 06:18:29 PM
Quote from: "old hot rodder"
 I'm not a teetotaler by any means, (


Me either, but I think too many people use a race as an excuse to just go on a binge and then get really surly.  Or else, they're just surly to begin with...

I usually won't drink during Cup races because I don't want to miss any of the race standing in the long bathroom lines.   You haven't seen surly till you've seen some women cutting the line to the restroom!  :wink:

Cheryl


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: old hot rodder on May 04, 2004, 08:55:17 PM
I'll pass on the Women's restroom gig Cheryl. :lol:
  But it is clear to me that you are a RACE fan, not just one of the herd. There areprobably not as many of those of us who are RACE fans as you might think, (as least Brian France doesn't think so  :cry: )
See ya.


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Vivian on May 04, 2004, 09:09:01 PM
Speaking of how generations change, back in 1984 I saw this short training movie called "You Are What You Were When" which started with the 1940's values of barter, then the 1950's layaway system, then the 1960's charge accounts, then 1970's credit card rush and on to the 1980's where children started taking the attitude of you owe me and since you do I don't have to value anything because you will give me anything I want because my friends get anything they want.  The trend being that each generation hoping to make it easier for their children than they had it have raised a bunch (of course not all are in this catagory) of irresponsible adults who really know nothing about values or respect.  And as Dave would say, "That's My Take!"   :)


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: sally on May 04, 2004, 09:13:06 PM
Hallelujah and amen!  Sice I work in the school system, I can guarantee that kids don't value much of anything, and expect to get whatever they want.  That's why I think Nascar got what it deserved at the track...they wanted the "young guns" in the stands.  Now they have to try to keep them happy.   Obviously, good racing isn't enough.
Sal


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: Cheryl on May 04, 2004, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: "Vivian"
Speaking of how generations change, back in 1984 I saw this short training movie called "You Are What You Were When" which started with the 1940's values of barter, then the 1950's layaway system, then the 1960's charge accounts, then 1970's credit card rush and on to the 1980's where children started taking the attitude of you owe me and since you do I don't have to value anything because you will give me anything I want because my friends get anything they want.  The trend being that each generation hoping to make it easier for their children than they had it have raised a bunch (of course not all are in this catagory) of irresponsible adults who really know nothing about values or respect.  And as Dave would say, "That's My Take!"   :)


Excellent post, Vivian!  I'd love to see that movie, but I hate that attitude among kids, but it is SO sadly true.  

As to Sally's comment about NASCAR getting what they deserve, I agree on most aspects of what they are doing to the sport, but I will never agree with what the fans at Talladega did.  There is no excuse for that.  None in my book.  And from what I read today, some people even threw plastic bottles at Gordon when he won last Sunday at California.  That is just wrong!  So what was the excuse this week since we saw a green flag finish?  But the people last weekend set the precedence, so unfortunatley we are going to see more and more of this.  To stop it, will NASCAR ban all coolers and only sell sodas in paper cups?  I guess you can't do too much damage with a paper cup.  

Cheryl


Title: RACE FAN BEHAVIOR
Post by: sally on May 05, 2004, 01:07:23 AM
Cheryl, I don't think what the "fans" did at Dega was OK at all.  But Nascar has courted the young fans.  I think this is the sort of behavior they can expect from them.  This is waht they wanted, isn't it?  Now they have to figure out how to deal with it.
Sally