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General Discussions => Race Talk => Topic started by: Vivian on April 26, 2004, 04:21:55 AM



Title: Caution downer
Post by: Vivian on April 26, 2004, 04:21:55 AM
is what I am on after that finish today.  Not because my favorite did not win but that Nascar wasted a good 10-12 miles by finishing it that way.  I felt so let down at the end of the race.  Like a kid who raced down the stairs to find someone had stolen the Christmas tree and Santa had not come to my house.  :?   I truly felt after such a tight race and so much competition that it would have been great to see a green, white, checkered flag finish.  Although my general opinion is that people should NEVER throw stuff on the track, I can understand their upset and the need to express their opinion on the way Nascar chose to let the race end.  It was a breathtaking race most of the day and to end under yellow was just not what most fans wanted to see.  I am glad no one got hurt and that was a big plus for me.  But I loved the competition.  I especially enjoyed the fact that Tony consented to an interview and he did not seem sullen or upset other than the fact that it was typical restrictor plate racing.  People seem to scrutinize him so much more and keep him under a microscope for what he does and seem to overlook it when other drivers do the same thing.  Yes, I am a Tony fan in case anyone is curious and yes, I know he does stupid things but I am proud that he did an interview today, even if he might have been in the wrong.


Title: Talladega
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 26, 2004, 09:18:39 AM
Yeah, it stunk to see the race end that way. I read that NASCAR absolutely hates one-lap shootouts due to the safety issues, which is why the "1-to-go" signal was not displayed with 2 laps left. While I understand the safety stuff, wouldn't they already be scared of the big wreck with drivers running hard with less than 10 laps left anyway? Just another unsolved mystery. Just sad that NASCAR will allow a green-flag finish in the Trucks and All-Star races, but not in Cup points races. Oh, well. At least as fans, we can almost always count on at least forty lead changes at Talladega, regardless of how much NASCAR tries to change the sport.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: John on April 26, 2004, 11:23:53 AM
I believe the fans in the "Sea of Red" were not upset about the way the race finished, but the fact that they thought Dale Jr. was in the lead at the time of the caution and it was then determined that Jeff Gordon was in the lead.  That is when all the trash got thrown out on the track.  Compare the cheers for Jr. and then the boos for Gordon.

Like him or not, Chris Myers hit the nail on the head.

It is possible that the garbage being throw on the track actually hindered the ability of NASCAR going back to green for a final restart.  They had announced the lap that they would not throw the red flag and they stuck with it.  The trouble is with 4 laps to go, they would have to reset the field quickly and give the one to go signal on 3 laps to go, green with 2 laps to go, white on 1 lap to go and then the checkered flag.  They would have been rushed to get this done and then if something happened bad, they would have been critizied for rushing the restart.

Don't forget, these cars are trying to get their fuel through a straw and it takes a good 2 laps to get up to speed and there would be no momentum for anyone to make a move for the win while trying to get up to speed.  The trucks, remember, do not have restrictor plates.  

While disappointing, there really is a no win situation.

If there is anything to be questionnable about, is how they determine who was in the lead at the time of the caution.  I know FOX showed a freeze frame picture, but unless I missed it, I did not see a yellow light in that picture.  It will be interesting how they will prove it.


Title: yellow flag
Post by: sally on April 26, 2004, 11:53:13 AM
The first time fans threw stuff on the tracks was at Daytona when Mikey won under caution.  Not just because Jr didn't win.  After all, he doesn't win more than he wins, right?  I think the fans are angry because Nascar takes so many laps to sort things out, what with the charity lap, freezing the field, and all the other bull.  Nascar takes so long to do all this that fans are being robbed of several green flag laps a race, and a possilbe green flag finish.  I didn't see a definitive answer about who was in front when the yellow came out, either.  Nascar needs to use GPS or SOMETHING so there aren't these kinds of questions.
     
I did think it was funny that Jr was smart enought to know that staying up by the wall kept him out of the trajectory of the  trash being thrown.

Question:  Is the wireless company that cheap, that the "post race show" they sponsor is only 5 minutes long?  Just asking.
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: John on April 26, 2004, 12:17:12 PM
Sally, If you have a tape of the race, compare the sounds of the crowd.  They were screaming with cheers when they thought Jr was in the lead compared to when they put Gordon in the lead.  And when Gordon came down to take the checkered, the fans were pelting his car!  If the fans did not like the way race ended, why take it out on Gordon?! (Personally, I'm glad they did.  No, even Gordon didn't deserve that. :lol: )  I don't say this because Gordon wins all the time (at least not anymore), but because Talladega is Earnhardt country.  If Junior was in front, I sincerely think there would have been no garbage.

We can take this opportunity to say that NASCAR frigged it up because of the charity lap and all the other things that go along with it.  But we have what we have and everyone has the same rules to deal with.  We could sit here and say "shoulda, coulda, woulda", but as DW said about the last pit stop, "These are the cards your delt, do what you can with them."

I would love to say that if Davey Allison were alive, Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon would not have won the championships they did.  But he's not here and I can't say it.  "Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda".


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Cheryl on April 26, 2004, 01:21:08 PM
I have to agree with the points John makes.  When the crowd thought Junior was leading, they were cheering wildly.  Then when NASCAR announced that it was Gordon, they turned ugly.  True, many were probably mad because the race was not restarted, but had Junior been declared the leader, I'm betting there wouldn't have been stuff thrown on the track the way it was done.  It seems to me that Mikey beat Junior that time at Daytona as well, but I really can't remember anything but the fans throwing trash on the backstretch.  Regardless of who did the throwing, it shows how rude and unsportsmanlike these fans were.  Booing is fine, but throwing stuff on a track, particularly a high-speed track like Talladega and Daytona, is just dangerous!

I also agree with everyone here about the unecessary delays the last few weeks during caution periods.  Yesterday, twice, we saw nothing but a piece of tire carcass and yet NASCAR wasted many needless laps running under caution.   Having to sort out the field because their stupid freezing the field and free pass rules.   I know I felt cheated out of laps sitting at home just like I did last week at Martinsville.  It's just ridiculous that this is a result of a stupid rule to begin with (the free pass).  

Cheryl


Title: Caution downer
Post by: jw on April 26, 2004, 02:44:33 PM
NASCAR really messed up on the finish.  It is hard to believe that it would take that many laps to set the field.  I was furious.
I was at the Pepsi 400 in Daytona when Michael Waltrip was showered with
seat cushions from the backstretch grandstands.  NASCAR messed up
that finish as well.  NASCAR needs to make an announcement to the fans
about where in the race the red flag WILL NOT come out.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Desmond on April 26, 2004, 04:08:09 PM
Three things from me:

1)I think the fans were responding more to the abrupt end of the race than to who won.  At Talladega, which is 2 2/3 miles around, a caution flag lap takes about 90 seconds.  Three caution flag laps, then, equal about 4 1/2 minutes.  That should be enough time for NASCAR to clear the involved car (there was only one--Vickers), reset the field, and at least try to run the last lap under green.  This is not a short track like Martinsville.  It could have been done.

2)No one at NASCAR is willing to listen to people who may tell them that they are wrong.  My character Buddy Wayne is one of those.  If he existed, he would have sent his girlfriend Shayla McLamb over to the white truck to persuade John Darby to restart the race.  And I'm convinced that this would have happened.  Click on the link below to find out what the Aaron's 499 would have ended.  Someone in real life has to follow his lead.

3)Did you know the last three Busch Series races have ended under caution?  I believe Clint Bowyer caused all of them, which would no doubt make him the least popular driver in the garage.  Oh, well, Kevin Harvick returns to the PayDay Chevy next weekend.


Title: been there, done that.
Post by: Lou on April 26, 2004, 05:18:04 PM
Racing or Wrestling??

I believe the boos and trash were more a result of Earnhardt being placed in second position than they were because the race was not finished under green.

I believe that had the trash NOT been on the track, a 1 lap shootout would have resulted in tremendous carnage and might have been the only sane decision NASCAR has made recently.

I believe there were times where no caution flag was necessary - Tony Stewart's spin and go for instamce. Had no caution been waved to re-bunch the field and waste more laps, the final wreck involving Vickers may never have occurred and the controversial ending may not have happened. But as someone said - woulda, should, coulda...

Having gone to Talladega for over a decade until recently, I can attest to the "sea of red". That is part of the reason I no longer go there. When you begin to feel unsafe at a track because of a preponderance of bad fan behavior, it's time to stay home. Which is exactly what I chose to do. The behavior yesterday was no surprise to me at all and would have been the same for any number of situations where the 8 car did not win.

As for Clint Bowyer, he mave have been INVOLVED in the final caution for the Busch race, but getting spun out by a veteran Busch driver does not make him the cause of the yellow flag.

Quote
After all, he doesn't win more than he wins, right?

Ya lost me on this one Sally  :?

Lou


Title: Caution downer
Post by: sally on April 26, 2004, 05:42:34 PM
Sorry.], Lou.  Didn't mean to be obscure.  Junior has NOT won lots of races in the past several years without fans throwing things on the tracks.  If the response yesterday was truly just the actions of Jr fans being pissed, wouldn't that happen at every race he doesn't win?  I just think it's easy to blame a ceretain group of fans for bad behavior when none of us really knows how wide spread the reaction was.  And, DW and Larry DID say on the air that the reaction was because Jr didn't win.  I think that's tacky. :(
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Cheryl on April 26, 2004, 07:57:22 PM
Quote from: "sally"
Junior has NOT won lots of races in the past several years without fans throwing things on the tracks.  If the response yesterday was truly just the actions of Jr fans being pissed, wouldn't that happen at every race he doesn't win?  


Here's a quote by Gordon from a Monte Dutton article where he talks about the people throwing stuff at him.  I think this says it all:

ďI took a lot of satisfaction out of a lot of things from that moment, and that was one of them,Ē Gordon said. ďAny time Junior doesnít win here and he has a shot at it, I think itís controversial. There are so many people pulling for him. He has a huge fan base. It was controversial for that and because we didnít go back to racing. I think they wanted to see him have a shot at it. "

I think the fans can accept it a lot better if Junior is nowhere close to winning or it's at one of the tracks at which he's not expected [by them] to win.  But in this case, a lot of his fans expected him to win and felt he was close.  So they felt NASCAR denied him the chance by not restarting the race and by declaring Gordon the leader by whateever method for freezing the field they chose to use yesterday.   It's not the same as if he was 2 seconds behind and there was a green flag finish.  There, they have no hope of a different outcome.

Cheryl


Title: Caution downer
Post by: texasracefan on April 26, 2004, 08:22:49 PM
:D  newbie here, hi everyone.  the only problem I had with the ending yesterday was the way Gordon acted in winner's circle.  Even though jr's my boy(came over from being a fan of his dad),  I did not mind gordon winning until he climbed out of his car and put on that pathetic show of emotion.  That was even more embarrasing than the fans throwing stuff on the track.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Vivian on April 26, 2004, 08:40:35 PM
WELCOME, TexasRaceFan!  Good to have you with us.  About Gordon, don't forget, he was trained well (by Brooke probably) to always be pc and and support sponsors well as they support him (and her, still) well.  :wink: I must say he does act and look a lot more natural and happier since she is out of his life.  JMHO.....


Title: Just wanted to say...
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 27, 2004, 12:40:16 AM
welcome to the forum, texasracefan! yeah, knocking over the powerade and spiking the pepsi have me skeptical of jeff gordon also.

did anyone see totally nascar tonight? kasey kahne, along with a few other drivers got a higher grade than matt kenseth on the colored chart. c'mon, larry mac. only matt and jr. have 2 wins this year. yes, matt could use some work in the qualifying department and he has struggled a litttle bit, but he's done better than some of those drivers mcreynolds mentioned. b+ seems like an insult to me, despite my bias towards the dewalt car.


Title: Re: Just wanted to say...
Post by: Cheryl on April 27, 2004, 01:49:07 AM
Quote from: "17RoushFan"
welcome to the forum, texasracefan! yeah, knocking over the powerade and spiking the pepsi have me skeptical of jeff gordon also.



It's well known that Matt Kenseth is the one who patented the move of knocking the Powerade off the roof last season, thereby spawning the GIANT bottle the next week.  Not that I find a thing wrong with that!  I thought it was a smooth move myself and every time Matt does it makes me laugh.  :wink:

Cheryl


Title: Caution downer
Post by: John on April 27, 2004, 01:53:14 AM
Hey 17roushfan, I like Kenseth as well, but I think he invented the "get that damn bottle off the top of my car" move.  Doesn't he have a deal with Gateraide?

Lou.  Is it really that bad at Talladega?  My wife has a sister about 6 hours away in New Orleans.  She wants to go see her and I told her that the only way I would go that far down south (New Brunswick is beside Maine for those who do not know) is if I could go to the nearest race, which is Talladega.  But if what you are saying is true, I couldn't enjoy the race.  I'd be scared to get a Bud can in the side of the head!

As far as the finish goes, basically what everyone is saying is what I was getting at earlier.  The fans cheered liked crazy when Jr. looked like he was in the lead and then all hell broke loose when NASCAR put Gordon in the lead.  Clear as mud.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 27, 2004, 02:52:09 AM
ha, ha, okay. that's right, he is in that one commercial with gatorade, so that makes sense. after yesterday, maybe he should knock over the powerade again!  :D

so much for the roush engines at restrictor plate tracks!


Title: Caution downer
Post by: texasracefan on April 27, 2004, 03:15:32 AM
I'm sure ya'll saw the comentary on thatsracin.com about the fans throwing trash on the track, david poole doesn't hold back.
http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/8522976.htm
hopefully that link will work

also, 17fan, do you think that roush racing tries to get to much power from there engines taking the chance of blowing them?  hendrick also had a rash of engines blow during a restrictor plate race a couple of seasons ago.

just rambling(getting off topic)


Title: Caution downer
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 27, 2004, 11:03:58 AM
To answer your question, texasracefan, the engines sometimes come by the luck of the draw, I believe. If one teammate has one, you can be sure another teammate who is still running has to be nervous. That's how it goes sometimes, but the Roush engines have not been all that bad this year. Speedweeks 2004 with the exception of the Daytona 500 turned out well for the Roush-Yates package. I think the Hendrick package is doing well. Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon have run well at the superspeedways this year, but DEI's engines are just better right now, plain and simple.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: rcairo1460 on April 27, 2004, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: "texasracefan"
:D  newbie here, hi everyone.  the only problem I had with the ending yesterday was the way Gordon acted in winner's circle.  Even though jr's my boy(came over from being a fan of his dad),  I did not mind gordon winning until he climbed out of his car and put on that pathetic show of emotion.  That was even more embarrasing than the fans throwing stuff on the track.


Howdy - NOT a Jeff Gordon fan buts it been awhile since he won 1 of these type races - I thought the emotion was "real" - He still enjoys getting ot done after all of his wins!!!


Title: Caution downer
Post by: texasracefan on April 27, 2004, 05:57:48 PM
jeff just acted like he dominated the race or blew everyone's doors off like ryan newman in the dodge commercial.  that's what I was trying to say.  like I said, I was cool with him winning, but come on........ :shock:


Title: Caution downer
Post by: rcairo1460 on April 27, 2004, 06:49:18 PM
Quote from: "texasracefan"
jeff just acted like he dominated the race or blew everyone's doors off like ryan newman in the dodge commercial.  that's what I was trying to say.  like I said, I was cool with him winning, but come on........ :shock:


race fan - Howdy - I dont see it that way - I dont see it thru DEI lenses as you do  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Caution downer
Post by: texasracefan on April 27, 2004, 06:54:02 PM
and they are pretty thick lenses, borderline coke bottle


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Cheryl on April 27, 2004, 06:55:10 PM
Okay, guys...I really think this topic needs to stop right here!  

This thread was suppose to be about the yellow flag finish to the race.  Can we get back on that topic or does this thread need to disappear?  I think there was a lot of good discussion earlier yesterday and I'd hate to see that all get deleted.  

As Lou always says "don't make me have to get up out of my recliner..." or in my case off my couch.   :)

Cheryl


Title: Back to the caution
Post by: sally on April 27, 2004, 09:47:45 PM
I think Nascar really needs to do something about all the laps eaten up during yellow.  With the time it takes to sort things out, we're getting cheated out of a lot of racing.  I'd like to see them stop counting laps under caution after a certain point (with 20 to go at short tracks, 15 at cookie cutters, and 10 at Dega and Daytona).  Let everyone pit for gas only,maintain the order they were in before the pit stop, then go back to racing.  Takes the fuel issue out of it, and leaves enough laps for a real race to the checkers.  They always say they have to run the "advertised distance", but they had no trouble running the Daytona 270, did they?

Does that sound reasonable?
Sally
 :roll:


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Vivian on April 27, 2004, 11:35:53 PM
Good points, Sally.  I just read that they may even stop the trucks having to end under green.  Geesh, what are they doing???


Title: Caution downer
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 28, 2004, 02:19:40 AM
Sally has a great idea. The only difference I would make would be to have a 5 or 10-mile rule where caution laps do not count if the race has less than 5 miles left. So with Martinsville being the shortest track, the last 9 laps must be under green under the 5-mile or less rule. If it were at Talladega, there would be 2 laps to go. What do you think?


Title: Caution downer
Post by: John on April 28, 2004, 02:40:16 AM
Hey Sally, it was the Daytona 272.5 to be exact! :lol:


Title: checker flags
Post by: sally on April 28, 2004, 02:46:53 AM
Anything less than 10 laps at Dega or Daytona would be a sin.  It takes 2 laps just to get up to speed, and it really would promote mayhem.  Ten laps would give drivers enough tome to maneuver for position without going kamikaze.  I'm leery of any mathmatical formula to determine the number of laps to run.  Nascar doesn't seem to have much luck with anything too complicated.

 The other benefit of doing things this way would be that they could go to the last previously scored lap to align the field withou penalizing anyone too badly.  If we're going to end under green, we should at least make it enough laps to give everyone a fair shot, no?

    If they just set a predetermined amount of laps for each track based on the size of the track, I think it would be better.  Nascar definitely needs to operate under the KISS system.

     I think Nascar is looking at the truck deal to make all the series "equal" as far aas rules go.  Do I need anything further to prove how dumb Nascar is?  The trucks have the most consistantly good races, yet they will change a good thing to make it equally stupid.  Apparently Nascar didn't understand that the fans aren't happy with caution flag finishes.  Since they've ignored everything else the fans have indicated they want, this diesn't surprise me a bit.
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: sally on April 28, 2004, 02:48:19 AM
Sorry, John.  I knew I was close, but must have forgotten that last lap under caution.  Oops.
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 28, 2004, 03:23:07 AM
vivian, where did you find the rumor of the trucks not finishing green, website-wise? thanks!


Title: Caution downer
Post by: sally on April 28, 2004, 03:51:28 AM
RouschFan:   I heard it tonight on Totally Nascar, too.  Can't remember where I read it.  Somewhere when I was on Jayski, I think.
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 28, 2004, 04:15:31 AM
okay. thanks sally! appreciate it!


Title: Caution downer
Post by: 17RoushFan on April 28, 2004, 05:19:50 AM
great article from SPEED TV's ray dunlap: http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/nascar/10814/.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: sally on April 28, 2004, 11:17:31 AM
Right on Ray!!!  I think he summed it up perfectly!  Everyone ready to send E mail to Nascar to let them know how disgusted we were?
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Cheryl on April 28, 2004, 12:28:48 PM
Wow!  I'm really impressed that Ray wrote this article.  It's nice to see someone associated with Fox come out and tell it like it is publically.  He made it clear he is a race fan first.  I get so sick of TV and the drivers telling us what the fans like and want to see (i.e., wrecks and big pack racing at restrictorplate tracks).  I really think the drivers are so out of touch with the real fans, they don't have a clue what we like.  I've liked Ray from his ESPN days and he seems to still tell it like it is even though he's left for Speed/Fox.  

Great article!
Cheryl


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Desmond on April 28, 2004, 03:43:18 PM
Correcting an earlier post, the last four Busch Series races have ended under caution.  The last ending under green was on March 20 at Darlington.  

The Bristol race also had a yellow-checkers finish, but Clint Bowyer did not cause that caution unlike the others.


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Cheryl on April 28, 2004, 03:54:23 PM
I'm reading an article from the Baltimore Sun now and this is a quote from Jimmy Johnson about how it ain't really racing anymore anyway.  Personally I think NASCAR's "advertised distance" argument has always been a bunch of crap.  If they make changes to the G/W/C in the truck series, that will really be sad since that's what all Saturday night short tracks do.  Of course, they ALSO go back to the last lap running order when a caution comes out.  Here's the quote:

"And driver Jimmie Johnson said that, though tradition may hold races be run at an advertised length, the sport has crossed a line into the entertainment zone, and that means it needs to act accordingly.

"Looking at our new points system, it's not based on racing anymore," Johnson said. "I would think there needs to be a change in how races finish so they are pleasing to our corporate sponsors and our fans. I'd anticipate a change next year. "

I guess he doesn't understand this entertainment aspect is not pleasing to most of the fans.  At least not us oldtimers.

Here's the entire artilce if you are interested:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.nascar28apr28,0,5010640.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

Cheryl


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Vivian on April 28, 2004, 08:56:11 PM
Good articles 17RoushFan and Cheryl.  I think I will email Nascar.
Also Patty Kay at http://insiderracingnews.com/PK/042804.html had a great article.
Now, not to bash any driver, but back to race interviews: Mark Martin said it was no race.  Was that because he delibertly just hung around the back for the first 2/3's of the race and then went to the front and wound up losing and was then whining or what was his real beef??


Title: Caution downer
Post by: sally on April 28, 2004, 09:06:03 PM
Viv,
    Mark hates restrictor plate tracks, and has never made any bones about it.   I think that's why...he doesn't think 3 wide nose to tail is a race.  It's more of a chess match.  He does have a point.

I thought Ray Dunlap's article was great!  It's nice to know that SOME people got it that the fans were mad about the WAY the race ended, not WHO won.  Even Larry Mac said the same thing last night on Totally Nascar!  Coulda knocked me over with a feather!
Sally


Title: Caution downer
Post by: old hot rodder on April 28, 2004, 10:48:00 PM
Vivian, I'm a Roush fan, particularly the 6,99 and 17. After seeing your post, I went back and checked what Mark said, and he did say "that wasn't much of a race to me".
  I believe what he was saying is, as
Sally said, he still dislikes plate races and that he was glad that he didn't wreck & that no one got hurt.
   He also said that while his car was good, the top 5 or so Chevs just were too fast for him, all day. So I don't think he was whining, but just re stating his dislike for plate races.
   BTW, I don't mean to be too defensive here, but since you asked, I thought i'd check it out.
   see ya! :)


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Vivian on April 28, 2004, 11:04:07 PM
Thanks, Sally & Old Hot Rodder!  And, no you were not too defensive.   8) Same as my intent was not to bash or criticize.  I just don't understand why some drivers like Mark, Jarrett, B. Labonte do hang to the back until toward the end of the race.  I would think that would make it more possible for them to be caught up in the big one and I would think they would want to avoid that situation.  I know a lot of drivers hate the restrictor plate races but then so many drivers just love to compete and race all race long with other cars and they say it is fun (not necessarily the plate tracks) to be back and forth with another car(s) for a while.

IMO this has been one of the greatest threads we have had and I know it still is not over.  What do all of you think?


Title: Caution downer
Post by: Cheryl on April 29, 2004, 01:12:59 AM
Quote from: "Vivian"
Thanks, Sally & Old Hot Rodder!  And, no you were not too defensive.   8) Same as my intent was not to bash or criticize.  I just don't understand why some drivers like Mark, Jarrett, B. Labonte do hang to the back until toward the end of the race.  


There are several of them who have been using that tactic at Talladega for the last several years.  Ever since they put the rules package in where you can easily go from the front to the back and climb back up the front again.  One of the last times we were there, I remember DJ, Bobby, Johnny B, and Stewart running in the back to try and stay out of trouble.  Problem was, someone mid-pack wrecked and Bobby and Stewart ended up getting collected and taking each other out.  Guess that plan didn't work to well for them.   :wink: But in this case it seemed to work for Jarrett at least as he ended up near the front by the end, I think.  

I'm not a fan of Martin, but in his defense, he was leading the race right after the first caution.  I specifically remember that.  But he got passed pretty quickly.Just because TV doesn't show drivers mid-field doesn't mean anything.  We know they only show the leaders 75% of the time.

Cheryl


Title: Caution downer
Post by: sally on April 29, 2004, 01:22:28 AM
It seems to me that, these days, it's only the younger guys who think racing at Daytona and 'Dega is fun.  Can't say I blame them.  I can't imagine what it must be like running in packs that tight all day long.  Gives me a headache just to watch!